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Tlingit Conversation #27
Speakers are Tléiḵw Wásʼi Lorraine Adams, Yéiyikanaléin Vincent Johnson, and Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester. Recorded July 20, 2010 in Yakutat, Alaska, by Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester. THIS RECORDING IS CONTINUED ON #28.
This material is based on work supported by National Science Foundation grant BCS-0853788 to the University of Alaska Southeast with Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff as Principal Investigator and by National Endowment for the Humanities fellowship 266286-19 to Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this material are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Science Foundation or National Endowment for the Humanities.
Tlingit transcription by Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester. English translation by Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester and Kaxwaan Éesh George Davis. Edited by Shag̱aaw Éesh Devlin Anderstrom.
SYMBOLS: {false start}. (added for clarity). [translator/transcriber's note]. ??? = can’t understand. «Lingít quotation marks» [Time-aligned text for this video was accomplished using ELAN ((Versions 6.0 (2020), 6.1 (2021), and 6.3 (2022) [Computer software]. Nijmegen: Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics, The Language Archive. Retrieved from https://archive.mpi.nl/tla/elan]
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Daaḵw.aa {daaḵw daaḵw}
Which
Wáa sá yakḵwaḵáa?
How should I say it?
Daaḵw.aa tléiḵw
Which berries,
gé, daaḵw.aa tléiḵw gé i x̱'éit yak'éi?
which berries do you like?
Daaḵw.aa tléiḵw sá ax̱ x̱'éi yak'éi?
Which berries do I like?
Aaá. Yéi x̱áawé!
Yes, that's it!
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Uh, well,
salmonberries is good. You want Tlingit talking?
Aaá.
Yes.
Lingít x̱'éináx̱ sá!
Say it in Tlingit!
Lingít x̱'éináx̱?
In Tlingit?
Was'x'aan tléig̱u. Thatʼs whatʼs salmonberries.
Salmonberries,
Was'x'aan tléig̱u.
Salmonberries.
Éitsk'!
Delicious!
I forgot that for a while and then all of a (sudden) I was thinking pretty hard, "No, there's another name for it besides tléiḵw."
Then I thought, was'x'aan tléig̱u.
Then I thought, salmonberries.
Aaá.
Yes.
Xunaadáx̱ ax̱oo.aa, am,
Some (folks) from Hoonah, um,
yéi s aawasáa
they call it
tléiḵw tlénx'.
salmonberries. [Said 3 different ways in Tlingit.]
Oh, my goodness.
Kind of strange.
Aaá.
Yes.
Hm.
Ḵuk'éet' gé ituwatee?
Do you want to go berry picking?
Ḵúnáx̱ ḵuk'éet' x̱at tuwatee
I really want to go berry picking
was'x'aan tléig̱ug̱áa.
for salmonberries.
And ,what? Kanat'a.
Blueberries.
Shákw.
Strawberries.
But I got that, a lot of that in my yard.
Shákw.
Strawberries.
Mhm.
Am, wáa sá
Um, how
wáa sá s dulyéix̱ wé kanéegwál'?
how do they make Tlingit pudding? [berries cooked with salmon eggs]
Wáa sá dus.ée kanéegwál'?
How do they cook Tlingit pudding?
Yéi x̱áawé.
That's it.
Aa,
Uh,
let's see. What comes first. Eggs, yeah, eggs.
Kaháakw gé?
Salmon eggs?
Kaháakw.
Salmon eggs.
Kaháakw.
Salmon eggs.
Kaháakw áwé sʼé dus.ée.
First they cook the salmon eggs.
Ch'a áyáx̱ ák.wé?
Is that how it's done?
Mhm.
Kaháakw áwé sʼé dus.ée.
First they cook the salmon eggs.
Aatx̱ áwéis,
Then from there,
ah,
uh,
yéil'.
elderberries.
Yéil' a yíkde.
Then elderberries get put in there.
Mhm.
Ḵa daakw.aa sáyáa tsú?
And what else too?
Kanat'á.
Blueberries.
Aa, kanat'á.
Yes, blueberries.
Éitsk'.
Yummy.
And, what else? Seems like we got something missing. You crush the eggs first. Now how would you say that in Tlingit? Now, um,
Kadug̱útlx̱.
People mash them with their hands.
Mm.
Kadug̱útlx̱.
People mash them with their hands.
Just like salmon berries.
Kadug̱útlx̱.
They mash them in their hands.
And put in your sugar and seal oil.
The old way.
Mhm.
Yeah, you crush, crush them up.
Yeah. Weʼre forgetting that.
Lingít x̱'éináx̱ sá, "We're forgettin' that."
Say, “We're forgetting that,” in Tlingit.
A kaadé yaa haa sanax'áḵw,
We are forgetting that,
wé
the
tléiḵw kag̱útlx̱i.
mashing berries with hands.
Xákwl'i ḵu.aa.
But soapberries.
Xákwl'i.
Soapberries.
Xákwl'i gé i x̱'éit yak'éi?
Do you like soapberries?
Aaá.
Yes.
Scarce, that's scarce.
Mm.
You got to have the right people to do it the right way.
Aaá.
Yes.
Otherwise youʼll, some of them will do it with egg beater.
Aaá.
Yes.
Dleit ḵáa aayí. [At shooḵ]
The white man way. [Laughter]
Dleit ḵáa jayáx̱.
Like how the white people do it.
Aaá.
Yep.
Hmm. I still can remember the old timers.
Xákwl'i.
Soapberries.
Ch'as du jíntin gé?
Only with their hands?
Hasdu jín teen, yeah.
With their hands.
Palm téen.
With your palm.
Likoodzée x̱á.
Thatʼs awesome.
Yeah.
Fingers een.
With fingers.
Aaá.
Yes.
Better that way.
It doesn't turn out too good with egg beater.
A x̱oodé gé yan
And after
kayeeyjél tléiḵw
putting in berries
ḵach'u ch'as xákwl'i ḵa shóogwaa?
or only sugar and soapberries?
Shúgaa.
Sugar.
Sugar.
Aaá, shúgaa.
Yes, sugar.
Shúgaa a x̱oodé daaduné.
They put sugar in it.
And,
You can add, um, apples too.
Daa sá?
What?
Apples.
Apples.
Apples.
Áagwans.
Apples.
Áagwans áwé tsú.
Apples too.
a x̱oox' yéi ndu.eich.
they would always put in there.
Yéi ák.wé?
Is that right?
Yóo tl'áatl'i yáx̱
Those yellow
yateeyi aa ḵu.aas, a saayí gé ḵudzitee wé nadáakw káwu?
ones though, is there a name for them, on the table there?
Tl'áatl' yáx̱ yateeyi aa tléiḵw.
The yellow berries (fruit).
Wé s'íx' káx'.
On the plate.
Daaḵw.aa? Monkey atx̱aayí shákdé wé?
Which? “Monkey food”, perhaps?
Bananas.
Yeah, huh.
Oh, bananas.
Tle hél x̱wasakú wáa sá dusáagu. Wáa sá duwasáakw,
I don't know what they're called. What are they called,
wé bananas?
those bananas?
Hmm, I swore there was, gee, long time ago.
Tléil x̱wasakú.
I don't know.
Hmm, now what would be the description?
Monkey atx̱aayí. Monkey atx̱aayí.
Monkey food. Monkey food.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Yéi x̱áawéi yéi s aawasáa, Juneau-x'.
In Juneau that's what they call them.
Aandaatkanahík atx̱aayí.
Monkey food.
Aandaatkanahík.
Monkey.
Uhh.
Probably not the best word.
I don't think they had a word for a monkey.
Slur ák.wé?
Is that a slur?
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Monkey.
I know there's a word, I mean, for when they call someone by that.
Mhm.
Yeah.
Ayáx̱ áwé.
That's right.
But I can't remember it.
Daa sá tsú?
What else?
Gwál,
Maybe,
Hmm.
Daa sá i tuwáa sigóo yilayeix̱í?
What do you like to make?
Yóo atx̱á?
For food?
Atx̱á?
Meals?
X̱áat, ḵach'u tsaa, ḵach'u
Salmon, or seal, or
k'wát'.
eggs.
Daa sá ees.ée nooch?
What do you always cook?
I'm trying to think, replace that
Iliyeix̱í,
That you make, [correcting]
iliyeix̱í.
that you make. [correcting]
Is when you're working with something, you're building something.
At isa.ée. Daaḵwéi sá,
You cooked. How,
Okay.
At sa.ée. Cooking.
S/heʼs cooking.
Isa.ée.
You are cooking.
Mhm.
Gunalchéesh!
Thank you!
Náayadi gé isa.ée?
Do you cook half-smoked fish?
Náayadi daa yéi jatooné.
We work on half-smoked fish.
Hmm.
Now sockeye, what they call sockeye?
Mm.
G̱aat áwé.
Sockeye salmon.
G̱aat áwé.
Sockeyes.
G̱aat náayadi daa áwé yéi jatooné.
It's sockeyes we make into half smoked, half dried fish.
Aaa, let's see. Atx̱'éishee.
Yes. Let's see. Dry fish.
And,
just the fillets is náayadi.
just the fillets is half smoked, half dried.
Mhm.
I think so.
Mhm.
Uh, atx'aan tóode yéi daatooné.
Uh, we put it into the smokehouse.
Oh yeah.
Áx̱ toox'áan.
We smoke it in there.
Hmm, mhm.
Mm.
Áx̱ akawdudlis'eig̱i x̱áat x̱ʼéit gé yakʼéi?
Do you like smoked fish?
Ḵúnáx̱!
Really!
Aaá, x̱át tsú! [At shooḵ]
Yes, me too! [Laughter]
Táakw.
Winter.
Aadé yaa naxixi yé táakw.
The way the winter is going.
Ah,
Uh,
ch'a Lingít atx̱aayí ax̱ tuwáa sigóo x̱wax̱aayí.
I want to eat only Tlingit foods.
Tléil daa sá ḵu.aa.
But there's nothing.
Táakwx' Lingít atx̱aayí
In winter, Tlingit food
áwé i tuwáa sigóo.
is what you want.
Aaá.
Yes.
Ḵúnáx̱ ḵaa x̱'éi k'éi nukch, táakwx'.
It always tastes really good to people, in the winter.
Now, táakw nayís yan koodulgáaych.
Now, people put it away for the winter.
Hm.
S'eiḵ x̱áat.
Smoked fish.
Mhm.
Atx̱ʼéishee.
Dry fish.
Ch'ak'áawásh.
Strips.
Now, ch'ak'áawásh comes from,
Now strips comes from,
wáa sá duwasáakw 'humpy' Lingít x̱'éináx̱?
what are humpy salmon called in Tlingit?
Mm. Itʼs simple too.
Cháas' gé?
Humpies?
Cháas'. Yeah. Mhm.
Humpies, yeah. Mmm-hmm.
Cháas'.
Humpy salmon.
Cháas'.
Humpies.
Ah, let's see how do they fix that now.
Uh
Cháas'.
Humpies.
Necktie yáx̱ áwé daaduné.
They make them like neckties.
Aaá. [At shooḵ]
Yes. [Laughter]
Yeah.
Jánwu ḵu.aa?
How about mountain goats?
Jánwu?
Mountain goat?
Aaá.
Yes.
Yeex̱áa gé?
Do you folks eat it?
Ooooh, it's been a long, long time since we got all that G̱unaax̱oo.
Ooooh, it's been a long, long time since we got all that at Dry Bay.
In G̱unaax̱oo you can get jínwu.
... Dry Bay ...
We used to eat that a lot when my dad used to,when we lived in Dry Bay.
Mm.
G̱unaax̱oox' yéi haa teeyée áwé, toox̱áayin ḵúnáx̱.
We used to eat that a lot, when we were living in Dry Bay.
You can fix that up. In Dry Bay you can bury it.
Haaw.
Well.
Wrap it up, dig, dig into the sand,
Mhm.
Put it in there for the winter, cover it all up.
Wow.
Yeah.
Freezer gé yáx̱?
Like a freezer? [They would store it up for winter use.]
That's the G̱unaax̱oo way.
... Dry Bay ...
Aaá.
Yes.
Hmh.
I was up in Haines that one year. It was '65. They did the same thing. One said, "Come with me". We went over and we dug it up. They had a big hole. "What's in that?" "Youʼll see." He brought a plastic bag out. Same thing.
Yeah.
Frozen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uwat'íx'.
Frozen.
Wududlit'íx'. Wududlit'íx'.
They froze it. They froze it.
Wudult'éex'idáx̱ áwé {yax̱}
After they freeze it,
anax̱ yéi kagax̱dus.háa.
they bury it.
Mmm.
Gáa!
My!
The old fashioned way of doing it. I call that the Dry Bay way.
Mmm.
G̱unaax̱oo jayáx̱.
The Dry Bay way.
G̱unaax̱oo ḵwáan jayáx̱.
The Dry Bay people's way.
Aaá.
Yes.
A x̱aawú ḵu.aa, daa sá
The fur though, what
daa sá yéi adaanéi nooch? [Or, «Daat sá dulyéix̱?»]
how is it used?
Wool.
A x̱aawú gé?
The fur?
The skin?
The skin?
Tléik'. Tléikʼ um, the wool.
No. No, um, the wool.
Jínwudáx̱.
From the mountain goat.
Naaxein gé?
(Do you use it for) Chilkat Robe?
Goat, goat hair.
Aaa.
Yes.
Itʼs what they make the blankets out of. The uh,
Chilkat.
They really used to make use of that. All those skins.
Mhm.
It's amazing the way they used to be.
Can put them into blankets.
Ḵach'u sankeit.
Or dance aprons?
All those things.
X̱'uskeit.
Leggings.
Yeah.
Shaka.át shákdé?
How about for headdresses?
Yeah.
I would call that
G̱unaax̱oo Ḵwáan jayáx̱.
the Dry Bay method.
Aaá.
Yes.
Make sure you got that tail on them.
Aaá.
Yes.
{Wáa sá} Wáa sá duwasáakw?
What is it called?
Daa ágé?
Weasel?
Ermine? Ermine tail? What kind of tail?
Just any of those animal tails.
Oh.
Decoration.
Aaa.
Yes.
And I'm sure they used to love to make them for dancing. When they move around everything moves.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Wáa sá duwasáakw yáa
What do they call the
{shá} hasdu shá
their heads
{a}al'eix̱ yís.
for dancing.
A kát x̱at seiwax'áḵw.
I forget it.
I want to say ‹shaduḵéech› but that's not it.
I want to say ʼthey would wake upʼ but that's not it.
Iʼm only thinking of shaka.át.
I'm only thinking of headdress.
Aaá.
Yes.
I think there's another names.
Shakee.át.
Ermine headdress.
Another.
G̱unaax̱oo Ḵwáans really used to dance.
... Dry Bay people ...
The men folks when they come in.
Mhm.
With all the strength they really can move it right.
Mm.
You don't hardly see that in the dancers of now. But they dance more the Yakutat way too, that's another reason.
Mmm.
But when the Dry Bay men start coming in to dance long ago.
Mhm.
Yeah.
Litseen kwshé?
With strength?
Yeah.
Last time I saw that was in 1949 at the Thunderbird house up here. That was the last year they held a party up there.
Yeah.
Then they sold it and it went (to), letʼs see, how many hands after that? Uncle Frank.
Yeah.
Sure too bad we're losing that part of it.
Yeah.
I thought it used to be fun watching them when they were coming in, gáa!. Really can...
my!
Alshát gé?
Holding anything?
Really can put it, move it in.
Has alshát gé chʼa daa sá
Are they holding anything
al'eix̱tín,
with the dance,
ḵach'u ch'as du jín?
or just with their hands?
Sometimes it was just the hands but some of them will hold something.
Mm.
Woosáani shákdé?
Perhaps spears?
Daa sá?
What?
Woosáani shákdé?
Maybe with spears?
A fishing spear?
Ḵach'u óonaa gé?
Or with rifles?
Did they dance in with stuff or just by themselves?
They will dance in with something.
Oh.
It's been such a long time since I really seen the Dry Bay guys come in to dance the Dry Bay way.
Mm.
They do it just a little lightly nowadays. I'm glad you mentioned that, cause when we go into Dry Bay this spring I'd like see some of them practice for that dancing and come in the way the Dry Bay men used to come in. That's really fun to watch them. Yeah. They can really put it in there and move.
Mm.
Daa sá tsú?
What else?
{yóo} Gwál haa naakahídi daat
Maybe about our clan house
kwshé?
huh?
Haa naakahídi.
Our tribal house.
Aaá.
Yes.
Uh, this last time we went into Dry Bay. Like where the cannery, is right across from the cannery, we first come upon where the, uh, Frog House used to be. Down further when I used to live in Dry Bay as a kid, we lived in uh, my grandfather's tribal house. Old man John Williams' tribal house. Canoe Prow House.
Shaaka Hít.
Canoe Prow House. [Some say, «Shaka Hít».]
Right next door was the Thunderbird House.
Xeitl Hít.
Thunderbird House.
And, oh they used to have nice, nice tribal houses down there, Dry Bay. There, there used to be a cannery there where it used to be. Lot of work going, going on.
Mhm.
And they had uh, itʼs too bad, I can still remember some of the posts that came out from the cannery area.
Mm.
I guess it's a dock, used to be.
Hm.
You remember those posts there?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's where Dry Bay had the cannery first.
And the trestle. Before Yakutat.
The trestle that used to run down used to be able to post, I think uh, I'm sure that Hardy Trosker,
Yeah.
and, uh, Axelsons have a picture of it.
Oh wow.
They got the picture of it.
The last picture that was taken which is backing up into the. I'm sure they got it, so. If you ever find out who has it, why, you know, thatʼll be,
Oh, I wish I could find that picture.
Yeah, that was the last one that was Dad and Mom were telling me. Going back up into the cannery backwards, you know, cause you come down pick up the fish.
Yeah.
And, uh, that was the last time.
Mm.
If you ever find out where that is from Hardy Trosker and Wayne Axelson are the two that know about that, got the picture of that.
Mhm.
Put it out, put it out in maybe paper newspaper. So and then maybe they, It had to be a big issue to the Dry Bay cannery.
Yeah.
So.
I wonder if they would have that in the archives in Juneau.
Could be yeah. That's what I was thinking of.
Gwál yé.
Maybe.
State.
Mmm.
I think I'll try to call around if I can find the, the phone numbers. From the state archives they can probably direct.
Mhm, yeah.
where to call. Oh yeah. That'll be good.
Huh.
I'm pretty sure there's old pictures.
Yeah.
Wáanáx̱ sáwé, Shaka Hít yóo s aawasáa yú léelkʼw naakahídi?
Why did they call your grandfatherʼs tribal house Canoe Prow House?
Shaaka Hít? Aaá.
Canoe Prow House. Yes.
The Mt., well Mt. Fairweather's down there.
[Is TlWLA interpretimg Shaaka Hít as ʼhouse on the mountainʼ, despite calling it ʼCanoe Prow Houseʼ in English?]
Mhm.
Probably.
Mhm.
Shaaka Hít.
Canoe Prow House.
Lukaax̱.ádi aayí ák.wé?
Is that one of the Lukaax̱.ádi houses?
Ah, let's see...
kaadáx̱ ḵuwdzitee, shákdé, Shaka Hít.
Emma Marks (mightʼve been born in Canoe Prow House).
That's the one we, cano, no, Canoe Prow House?
Aaá.
Yes.
That's the one I used to live in. But that my was grandfather's. My Grandfather is uh, Lukaax̱.ádi.
Oh.
Yeah. So we lived in his house.
Mm.
One thing, Ma Boss, I don't know if you remember Ma Boss.
Yeah, mhm, yeah.
She looked at Aleck when he was a baby. Says, "Oh my gosh," she says, "it's old man John Williams all over again."
And she says,
"He had the money and he had the women."
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Oh, god.
Yeah, well I would think so because Dry Bay people were pretty much having the money.
Mhm. Mm.
X'oonináx̱ sá aawasháa?
How many did he marry?
Four. I think his four wives are buried in Situk. I took a picture of it.
Oh.
I got a picture of them. He had four wives. He had a Shangukeidí wife, Teiḵweidí wife, and he went through all the tri..., different tribes.
Haaw.
Well.
His wives were different tribes.
Mhm.
And Teiḵweidí must have been his first wife because my dad is a Teiḵweidí.
Mhm.
And my Uncle John and my Aunt Jess are Shangukeidís.
Oh.
So his, his last wife must have been a Shankgukeidí.
Mm.
Interesting.
Yéi x̱áawé!
Indeed!
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Lidzée áwé ḵustí!
Life is hard!
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Yeah.
Gwál, am, awsikóo gé?
Maybe, um, does he know?
Wáanáx̱ sá yáat?
Why he's here?
Gwál du een kananeek x'wán Lingít x̱'éináx̱
Maybe tell him please in Tlingit
daa sá yéi daatoonéi yáa yeedát.
what we are doing now.
Yak'éi ák.wé?
Is that ok?
Sealaska jiyís ák.wé yéi jiné wéit'át?
Is that work for Sealaska?
Cáanich yís, university.
For the college, the university.
Oh, university, university jiyís áwé
Oh, university, itʼs for the university
wéit'át {yaa} yaa ayanasxíx, a kaadé áwé yóo x̱'atuwatánk.
heʼs running that thing, we are speaking into it.
Yeah.
Yéi ák.wé?
Is that it?
Aaá! Ḵúnáx̱ yak'éi, gunalchéesh x̱áawé!
Yes! Its really good, thank you indeed!
Hm.
Fanny Wess x̱wasakóowun, x̱á.
I knew Fanny Wess, you know.
Daa sá?
What?
Fanny Wess x̱wasikóo.
I know Fanny Wess.
{Ijigax̱} Ijigax̱duḵéi.
You'll get paid for your work.
Am.
Um.
Aadé yoo x̱'ayli.atgi yé i tuwáa sagoowú, xʼúxʼ kát i saayí (sa)yéḵ.
If you want, for how you are conversing, sign your name on the paper.
{Ha wéitʼát tle} Ha wéitʼát tsús yaa kanajúxu,
While it's still running,
tape recorder.
tape recorder.
Aaá.
Yes.
Shux'áanáx̱ áwé
First
dáanaa yéi gax̱tusatéen
we'll see the money
yóo x̱'atootángi sákw.
for our words.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
{haadé ḵu} Haadé (yaa) ḵunatín yú shaawát.
The lady is traveling here.
Dáanaa shaawát.
Money woman.
Hóoch áwé {ija} ijigax̱duḵéi.
She's the one who will pay you.
Wé dáanaa s'aatí shaawát haadé yaa ḵunatín, yóo gé?
The lady in charge of the money is on her way here, is that what you said?
Aaá.
Yes.
Yáa yagiyee Juneau-dáx̱ yaa ḵunatín.
Sheʼs on her way today from Juneau.
Mm, uhuh.
G̱áx̱ Tlein,
Paul Jackson,
Paul Jackson
{yawduwasá} yawduwasáa,
he named her,
Lingít x̱'éináx̱, Wudisheeyi Tláa.
a Helping Mother, in Tlingit.
Du saayí, yá
This is her name,
dáanaa shaawát.
the money lady.
G̱áx̱ Tlein.
Paul Jackson.
There's another one.
G̱áx̱ Tlein.
Paul Jackson.
Isn't he an old, old man?
Yeah. What was Lawrence George Tlingit name?
Mm.
Geez.
Yéil Tlein gé?
Big Raven?
Oh, Yéil Tlein. They were brothers.
Oh, Big Raven.
Ooooh. Yeah. G̱áx̱ Tlein and
Ooooh. Yeah. Paul Jackson and
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Mhm.
Hm.
Yeah, Lawrence got adopted to here, see. Paul got adopted to, where did he get adopted to now?
Haines shákdé?
Haines maybe?
Haines ák.wé or Hoonah?
Is that from Haines or Hoonah?
Tlél x̱wasakú.
I don't know.
Yeah Haines, yeah. Cause uh,
Uhm.
Du x̱oonx'i yán
All his relatives
Deishóodáx̱,
are from Haines,
a, Lḵóot.
uh, Chilkoot.
Daanaawaaḵ, du x̱oonx'i yán. Yeah. Daanaawaaḵ. Aaá.
All of Daanaawaaḵʼs relatives. [Austin Hammond]
Ok. Daanaawaaḵ.
Oh, Austin Hammond.
Emma Marks, Seig̱eigée éek' áwé
Emma Marks, Seig̱eigéeʼs brother is
Paul.
Oh.
Ch'a g̱óot, no.
A different, no.
Ch'u shóogu tláa,
The same mother,
ch'a g̱óot aa éesh.
different fathers.
Oh.
Mm.
Emma, Shangukeidí yádi
Emma is the child of the Thunderbird
ḵa Paul, Chookaneidí yádix̱ wusitee.
and Paul was the child of the Chookaneidí. [people of Grass River]
Shangukeidí,
Thunderbird
that from Haines area?
Emma? Yaa, a, G̱unaax̱oo Ḵwáan.
The uh, Dry Bay People.
Oh, ok. Well, uh, they, they connect into Haines too.
Mmm, mhm.
Yeah, up
The old trading route, huh?
Mhm.
Yeah, the Thunderbird House.
Oh, Tlákw Aandáx̱
Oh, from Klukwan
shákdé, Shangukeidí?
maybe, the Thunderbirds?
Hnh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, we have a Thunderbird, we had a Thunderbird House here in Yakutat too, and there's the one in Dry Bay area.
Mm.
Tlákw Aan ḵu.aa, ah,
Klukwan though, uh,
Kawdliyaayi Hít.
The House Lowered from the Sun.
Kawdliyaayi Hít.
The House Lowered from the Sun.
Aaa.
Yes.
Ḵa tsu Xeitl Hít.
And Thunderbird House too.
Yeah. We also had Kawdliyaayi Hít in Dry Bay.
House Lowered from the Sun
Oh.
Cause I think we were checking those places out.
[When they visited Dry Bay where no one lives now.]
Last time, Kawdliyaayi Hít's spot and
Thunderbird.
Mm.
Tsu Shís'g̱i Hít.
And the Sapling House.
Daaḵw.aa sá?
Which one?
Shís'g̱i Hít.
Sapling House.
Tsu Shís'g̱i Hít.
And the Sapling House.
Sapling House.
There's supposed to be about seven houses, but I sure can't remember all the names.
Shangukeidí aayí gé?
Is that one of the Thunderbird houses?
I can't remember whether it was Shangukeidíʼs or L'uknax̱.ádiʼs.
Aaá.
Yes.
They come from in Dry Bay area, G̱unax̱oo areas.
[G̱unax̱oo = 'among the people of different nations']
Of course you got to separate the L'uknax̱.ádis from Lukaax̱.ádis. Lukaax̱.ádis were the ones that settled Dry Bay first ahead of the L'uknax̱.ádis. L'uknax̱.ádis come up the coast, settled in Sitka, Sitka into Dry Bay. So that's how come they went back and forth Dry Bay, Sitka, Dry Bay, Sitka, Lituya Bay.
Mhmm.
Three places.
No my great, my grandmother, my great grandmother comes from Sitka area.
Wáa sá duwasáakw?
What's she called?
I got her Tlingit name.
Tléiḵw Wás'i.
Berry Bush.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jenny ák.wé?
Is that Jenny?
Jenny Patty.
Yeah, ok.
Yeah. The Patty, her last husband I think was an Eyak, her last husband. Her first husbands were Tlingits, her own kind.
Uhuh.
Sitka areas.
Oh.
Dry Bay.
Mhm.
I'm beginning to kind of lose, lose, uh, going quite a ways back. I was able to go quite a ways back on my ancestors and where they come from.
Mm.
But Dry Bay people though, they connecting to Sitka back and forth. Lituya Bay.
Lituya Bay George moved, uh, from Lituya Bay to Aakwéi, I mean uh, Dry Bay.
Yeah.
And then, Penny and uh, Mom. Mom said she was six years old when she moved. 1906 they moved to Dry Bay.
And that's where Jeiník was born.
And that's where Jenny White was born.
In Dry Bay?
Yeah.
Oh.
Yeah.
They went back, they went back, they left her home in uh, Lituya Bay and then went uh, to Dry Bay.
Mhm.
Cause everybody was moving out anyways, moving out of Lituya Bay, so.
Yeah, yeah she also
That's, that's where the house of uh, what's his name built. He built right on the ground. That's just, thatʼs where my mother showed me and that's where they had that long stretch. And uh, I don't know how he uh, found it. I tried to tell that to Sally and Sig and he got kind of, you know, angry about it. That's why I just said, "Well, we lost it now, so." You know, Harold Robins, I don't know if he knew it or not, but that's what he built his house on. The ground my mother, Jeiník,
Yeah.
they were born on, yeah, so.
Yeah.
Now we can't, can't do anything on it now cause heʼs got that big log house on, that he built it on the ground so we can't do anything about it so.
I wonder about that, cause uh,
They made the biggest smoke house over there and there were still relics over there when we went over there in 1952. You could still see the posts of the smokehouse.
Yeah.
I remember that, and uh, we had to walk up, we had to go up Muddy Creek in order to get to it. High tide. High tide we went up in it we walked. Mom was showing us then all that area that they used to run and play in, you know. Then, then they showed where the smokehouse was at. Remember that. Now today you can't find it.
Mm, hmh.
I plan on going into Dry Bay this spring along about the 13th in May. I think uh, the snow should be pretty well melted from the area. Like uh, I want to go into Williams Creek.
K'ux̱aach Héeni, they used to call it in Tlingit.
Williams Creek
K'ux̱aach Héeni.
Williams Creek.
I want to go in there.
Yeah.
Go in.
I heard they're going to go in.
Yeah.
This coming s(pring).
Mm.
So I want to go in there.
Hmh.
Miners gé?
Are they miners.
Aaá, wé miners, x̱á.
Yes, the miners, you see.
Yeah.
I know. But anyways, comes down, uh, I and Earnest Frances when up there in uh, 1960, we went up inside there with a boat. Had rain, big rain, and um you know how the river raises.
Yeah.
So we made it up there made it up there and we ran into that Swan Lake and he showed me where the Swan Lake is at.
Yeah.
It's real long and narrow. Real long and thatʼs where this Ram's Creek coming down this way where it meets.
Mhm.
Above them, so. My mother and I would... They used to walk up there every early morning and uh, get their...
Yeah.
Wow. Now what's the name of these people that are there in Dry Bay now?
Yeah they're...
Harold Robins.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Harold Robins. Um, I want to go, when I go in this spring, I, kind of reluctant about having them take me up there, cause. What I want to look for there is the minerals, so.
Yeah.
My grandfather knew about the minerals but he says, "Can't talk about it," because
dleit ḵáas are too greedy.
The white people are too greedy.
Yeah.
That's what they used to say.
Lingít x̱'éináx̱ gé?
In Tlingit?
Yeah.
{wáa s} Wáa sá yaawaḵaa Lingít x̱'éináx̱?
How did he say it in Tlingit?
Uh.
Dleit ḵáa, now how would you put it?
In English, now how would you put it?
Ldakát át áwé tóox̱ has ashát nukch.
They always snatch everything up for themselves.
Everything.
Mm.
Yeah.
They want to take it all.
Tlél haa daat áwé góon.
Gold didn't mean anything to us.
Ch'as eeḵ haa tuwáa sigóo x̱á.
We prefer copper.
I think that's what they say that's there, but I never liked to say it either. My grandfather knew about it but he says he didn't want to talk about it. Because otherwise they're just going to turn Dry Bay upside down, he says.
Yéi áwé yatee dleit ḵáa.
That's the way the white people are.
I didn't want to say too much about it myself when I was there in '72. We used to run, go all the way up and walk back down.
[THIS RECORDING IS CONTINUED ON #28.]