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Tlingit Conversation #28
THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF RECORDING #27. Speakers are Tléiḵw Wásʼi Lorraine Adams, Yéiyikanaléin Vincent Johnson, and Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester. Recorded July 20, 2010, in Yakutat, Alaska, by Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester.
This material is based on work supported by National Science Foundation grant BCS-0853788 to the University of Alaska Southeast with Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff as Principal Investigator and by National Endowment for the Humanities fellowship 266286-19 to Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this material are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Science Foundation or National Endowment for the Humanities.
Tlingit transcription by Waatsix̱ Tláa Claire Helgeson. English translation by Shákʼsháani Margaret Dutson with Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff. Edited by Shag̱aaw Éesh Devlin Anderstrom.
SYMBOLS: {false start}, (added for clarity), [translator/transcriber's note]. ??? = can’t understand, «Lingít quotation marks» Time-aligned text entry was accomplished using the software, ELAN (Versions 6.0 (2020) and 6.1 (2021)). Nijmegen: Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics, The Language Archive. Retrieved from https://archive.mpi.nl/tla/elan
But then he said also, Ray Smith told me, he said it's best that you just, you know, donʼt even,
even if you're kaawashoo, you're drinking, kaawashoo, youʼre drinking
...drunk...
just forget about it, just don't even mention it, you're not supposed to.
Old man Ray Smith, you know, so. Yeah.
Jinaháa gé kayaa yáx̱ yatee?
Is it like a taboo, like something bad will happen?
Maybe not jinaháa, but,
Maybe not like a taboo, but,
Just keep it in there for {later}, later on. Like now, you know, we can bring it up and talk about it but still can't, you know, let them know. Yeah, we just say, "We know about it," so. And uh.
Jim, my grandfather, died in the 40s.
Mmm.
And he knew. But he was quiet all the time.
Hmm.
Yú haa aaní áwé ách áwé.
Because it was our land.
Yeah.
Ch'a yeisú haa aaní áwé.
It is still our land.
Yeah, oh yeah.
Yeah.
Tléil has du daat ḵu.aa.
It is not around them though.
Dleit ḵaa.
White people.
Has aawatáw.
They stole it.
Wánnáx̱ has akoo.aaḵw.
Theyʼre slyly trying to.
Yeah I donʼt know too, still trying, well, maybe they succeeded now, I don't know, yeah.
Yeah.
But they sure talk about sometimes they spill it on, down there at Larry's. Two weeks ago I heard them talking. Oh, they weren't loud about it but they were keeping among themselves, you know, what's going to happen you know, that they know what's going to happen. I didn't want to hear too much about it so I just walked out, grabbed my coffee and sat out there and drank my coffee. I don't want to hear them talking about it.
Mhm. Yeah. So.
But uh, they, they're sure into it now.
Yeah I was going to fly down there this fall but (sigh) we had a little problem in our family so I had to go down to Utah.
Mhm.
And uh, where mine uh,
his, his auntʼs getting treatments.
Hmm.
So, when I saw you I figured well, I'll go down in uh, spring, but the thing is, I keep thinking about, uh, when uh, what are those peopleʼs names that are living down there in Dry Bay?
Uh, Harold Robins, and
Oh yeah Harold Robins. I'm afraid of them taking me up there.
Mhm.
But yet I want to go into old man John Williams's area there. In Tlingit they call it
Tax̱ ??? Kʼux̱aach Héeni.
(name)
That's my grandfather's Tlingit name, Kʼux̱aach.
(name)
Ax̱ yáa wduwasáa,
They named me that,
Lukaax̱.ádi,
Lukaax̱.ádi
Kʼux̱aach.
(name)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hunter ḵu.aa Seitaan.
Hunter though is Seitaan. [name]
Dora yéet aayí.
Dora's sonʼs [name].
Mmm, oh yeah, Seitaan.
That's uh, old man John Williamsʼs father is Seitaan.
Hú áwé, shakdé.
That's him, maybe.
Yeah.
K'ux̱aach ḵa Seitaan.
K'ux̱aach and Seitaan.
Kʼux̱aach.
{Sei} K'ux̱aach is old man John Williams.
Mhm.
And so his father is Seitaan.
Tléik'.
No.
There's another Tlingit name too besides that Seitaan. I've got it all written down but I, Oh, oh!
I thought K'ux̱aach and Seitaan were the same.
Uh, no.
Oh.
Seitaan, there's another name for Seitaan. Seitaan had two Tlingit names.
Sometimes I don't know if I should call them Tlingits or, they kind of were mixed with the Athabaskans.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mhm.
A mixture of blood.
Mhm.
That's how come when men folks used to come in, those old timers used to come in from Dry Bay, they were so tall.
Tall people, yeah. Hhmm. Yeah.
They were tall men. {I used to} When I was working here I used to hear the women folks talk about it, about them.
Lingít x̱'éináx̱ gé?
Was it in Lingít?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Theyʼd come in, in from Dry Bay, tall men, but they start intermarrying. {when they} The Yakutat area was Eyak so they were short, see.
Mhm.
And then they said they start intermarrying in Yakutat and then they start getting shorter.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Oh yeah.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Wáa sá duwasáakw "tall"?
How do you call “tall”?
Ḵáa kwlayát'
Tall person
they might say.
Oh.
{yéi kwli} Yéi kwligéi.
Heʼs this tall.
Aaá.
Yes
Yéi kwsigéink'i yee een yaa ntoo.át.
The small people, we are walking with you.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Yeah.
So could you say something like,
has du yáanáx̱ kuliyáat'?
they were taller than them?
Yeah, {yá, yá} They were taller than them?
Yaakwdáat ḵáax'w yáanáx̱ has ḵulayáat'in.
They were taller than the Yakutat people.
Aa.
Yes.
Yeah. Really tall. They, when I listen to the women talking about them when I used to work here they would say they were tall husky men that used to come in from Dry Bay.
Wáa sá duwasáakw husky?
What do they call 'husky'?
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
I forget how, how uh, how they
Not dlnétl?
Not ʼfatʼ?
Ḵáa tlénx', ḵáa tlénx'.
Big men, big men.
Oh.
Yeah that's right, I heard it all the time, ḵáa tlénxʼ.
... big men.
Mhm.
Huh.
Anyway, before I forget, yáadu á x'úx'.
... here's the paper.
I saayí a kát sayéḵ.
Sign your name on it.
Forgot your Kashaxít i saayí.
Write your name.
Aaá.
Yes.
Aag̱áa áwé chʼa k'át
Then at least
dáanaa i jeedé gax̱dutée.
they will give you money.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Ok what else uh, would you talk about. No, Yakutat was first settled by Eyaks.
19th.
[The date for the form YVJ is filling out.]
Yeah.
19th. 19th, yeah.
Aag̱áa áwé
And then
Uncle Sam x'úx'u áyá yáat'aa ḵu.aa.
this is Uncle Sam's paper though.
Oh yeah that's right, I'm free now, free of taxes.
Oh!
Yeah I don't pay no more taxes no more.
Oh!
The state gave me retirement now. I didn't want to but.
What's your box?
[USPS box number]
Uh, 246.
Yisikóo gé i social security aayí?
Do you know your Social Security thing (number)?
Yeah.
Aag̱áa áwé yáa {i}
And then this
i saayí
your name
a kát sayéḵ.
sign it on it.
Mhm.
A date.
Yáa yagiyee.
Today
Mhm.
Ixkée aayí ḵu.aa yáa yakyee.
The southern variant is yáa yakyee.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
You know that one guy here in town, his name is Steve Vale, he's starting to pick up on Tlingit language too. Gee, I can't believe the way, he understands it pretty good.
Hmm.
He's from Arizona, he's been here uh, some years now and he's starting to pick up pretty good on it.
Like yaakw, your boat, you know.
...boat...
Your oars.
Ax̱áa.
Oar.
Yeah, ax̱áa, yeah.
...oars...
Heʼs starting to, I can't believe it, he's a white guy like, uh.
They pick up fast those guys.
Mhm.
Them whites.
Yeah, he's ok. Then he'll look at me and say, "Did I say it right?" And I say, (shrugs his shoulders).
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Oh sure.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Hmm.
Answer them, answer them in Tlingit back and say
«Ch'a ayáx̱ áwé.»
“That's right.”
What they know.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
What did you say?
{Ch'a} Ch'a ayáx̱ áwé? Yeah
That's right?
Aaá.
Yes.
Ch'a ayáx̱ áwé.
That's right.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Aaá.
Yes.
Ok.
Gunalchéesh tlein.
Thanks a lot.
Ted, Ted Valle is working yet huh? Ted Sr.
He's what?
He's still working yet?
He's working on a, {go} works on a ship.
Oh, that's right, yeah.
They go, they go, they go once or twice a week, twice a week I think, go aboard. Tell stories.
Yaakw tlein yíkde.
Into a big boat.
Mhm, yeah.
Ayáx̱ ák.wé?
Is that right?
Ayáx̱ áwé.
That's right.
Aaá.
Yes.
Wáa sá duwasáakw wé tourists?
What do you call 'tourists'?
Yeah.
Yisikóo gé?
Do you know?
Ḵeixwnéich yéi yaawaḵáa, «Waḵdanóogu.»
Nora is the one who said they're “the ones who look around”.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Ahh yeah.
And then someone else said, I forget what they said in Tlingit but it meant, they go around asking everyone.
Oh yeah that's.
Lingít has ax̱'awóos' nukch.
They always ask people questions.
Yeah.
Say, there's another way of saying it now.
A kát x̱at seiwax'áḵw.
I have forgotten it.
I daaxʼ áwé has,
They,
???
Daa sá?
What?
{I daaxʼ}
I tʼaaḵxʼ áwé has x̱ʼawóos'in.
They were next to you asking questions.
Mmm.
Aaá, has ḵux̱ʼawóosʼ nukch.
Yes, theyʼre always asking people questions.
Mmm.
Goox' sá yáat'aa?
Where is this one?
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Goox' sá yéi yatee yatseeneit?
Where are the bears?
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Ah, yeah.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Gee last week when uh, the ferry came in, right below Helen Bremner's there, the place is full of berries. The shine, the sun, the shine came out for a while. It was shining on the berries, she stopped up there and two of them went up there and started eating it, yeah.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Oh, yeah. And I guess they got a little bag from Larry's I guess down here. Some kind of, they went right up back up there and brought it up, took it with them.
Miners yáx̱, ha.é.
Like miners, wow.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
That one girl was down there, well she was down here and she almost slid into that lake. I was walking up this way and I heard that old lady hollering. She went too far down, she didn't know how deep it was, I guess she was sliding into the water. Boy. I don't know what she was trying to do anyway.
My goodness.
She was from Aleut; she was Aleut.
That's where you'd say
aganáa, huh?
my gosh, right?
Yeah.
Ok.
Yeah.
Huh.
I heard there's no end to that lake.
Yeah.
How, just how deep it is, just no end. I heard some of the old-timers talking about it that tried. They said there's just no end to it.
Wow. No end to it, no bottom.
They put uh, 12 cars in there. 12 cars and all that land up there in the city hall all went in that lake. Yeah. You'd think it'd fill up but no, it never.
Yeah.
Never does. All that stuff they had over here, the big logs and stuff, they took it over. I always wondered when I worked on it for a while and we shoved them all in there. Don't know where it went.
Wow.
And uh, we tried uh, one winter when Johnny McKay was here, he used a line, it went down to the. It was 120 fathoms. He gave up, he says, "There's no bottom." So well, what are we doing out here? So we pulled it back up. Big ball of string. Can't find the bottom.
Likoodzí.
Amazing.
Yeah. I heard the generation before my time, the guys, they tried to get them down to the bottom and,
Pitless, uh, bottom, I mean lake.
Yeah.
I just wondered to myself, how many more lakes are that way, you know. We have lakes here but I wonder how many more are that way.
Well down by the dock too when they were building the first builings, at the dock, there were some certain places where the, what do they call those posts? Pile drivers? It would bob up. They couldn't, they coudn't get it settled down.
Hmm.
Couldn't get that to the bottom of it.
Wow.
Hmm.
And sometimes I used to hear some of them say, "Yakutat is just a floating town."
[At shooḵ] Oh dear. Yeah.
Huh.
Huh.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Wulihaashi áan.
Floating town.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
I know back in uh, 1898 was it, up til 2002, I mean uh 1902, was that when they had the earthquakes here? It shook for two days. And then it rained. It rained for 12 hours straight and then it stopped. And then the sun shined and then it had another shake. Tremors. That tremor lasted for two days. You couldn't eat on the beach, it was shaking too much. So they had to go out on the boat. Sit out in the canoes to eat.
Haaw.
Wow.
And uh, two days in a row it happened.
Wow.
Yeah, there was a drowning. Young people. One girl and a boy out in the bay. And uh, Bert seen the girl go in, so he tried to dive to her. He couldn't.
Huh. Wow.
He just couldn't get to the bottom of it.
Good grief.
So in certain areas I guess it's that way really.
Mhm.
Yeah over across Khantaak now we have another area over there. Low tide, as we speak now, you know they, they were over there. And there's a whole cave in like a funnel they said. And I've seen it myself when I was over there, slides in from Kenny's cabin, slides in to the beach, goes down like a funnel.
Hmm.
And that's, that's another deep hole too.
Mmm.
But that was created after that earthquake hit over there.
Mhm.
Yeah. Earthquake hit, sank, then after that they noticed it.
In the 50s?
Yeah.
That earthquake in the 50s?
'58.
'58. Mhm.
Yeah.
Wáa sá duwasáakw "earthquake"?
How do they say “earthquake”?
Let's see...
Aan kaawa.áa.
The earth quaked.
Mhm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
I heard there was a place the Mapes used to talk about down the other side of Ankau where they used to fish.
And they, they used to think it was pretty strange because it was hard uh, getting, getting their anchors
Mhm.
settled.
Oh.
Hard bottom. You wouldn't even know. Wouldn't even stay down, you know.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Likoodzée x̱áawé Lingít Aaní.
Tlingit land is amazing indeed.
There's sure some strange uh,
Yeah.
strange places.
Hmm.
I can uh, I could say this about Lituya Bay. After they had that big drop or that big uh, maybe that place is strange too you know, so.
Yeah.
Strange area.
Mhm.
After all, that created a 1,700 foot uh, wave, that whole mountainside moved out and just dropped right into the, The top of it moved off, you know. Moved off and slid and then came up. Thatʼs what created a 1,700 foot wave.
Yeah.
Aan kawda.áa?
Earthquake?
Yeah.
Is that what, earthquake?
I think so.
Aan kaawa.áa.
Earthquake.
Aan kaawa.áa.
Earthquake.
Mhm.
{aan yoo} Aan yóo {kadana né}
Kawdzinedi aan.
Trembling land.
Sa.aax̱ yáa shaawát
(Name), this woman.
Sa.aax̱ du saayíx̱ sitee.
Sa.aax̱ is her name.
Juneaux' yéi yatee. Teiḵweidí áhé.
She lives in Juneau. She is Teiḵweidí clan.
Yá atk'átsk'u dléigu yáx̱ yatee Humpty Dumpty.
Itʼs like a childrenʼs lullaby, Humpty Dumpty.
Haa een sh kawdlineek.
She told us the story.
Yú aaaan áwé kawdinét.
The earth was shaking.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Southeast is a little different than Yakutat area, those people when they talk. Aaá.
Yes.
Ch'a aadé yéi x̱at na.oo.
Please excuse me.
[At shooḵ]
[Laughter]
Yeah.
Ḵúnáx̱ ax̱ toowú yak'éi i sé x̱wa.aax̱í, i shkalneegí. Yakʼéi.
I'm very glad to hear your voice, your stories. Itʼs good.
Ḵúnáx̱ ax̱ toowú yak'éi.
I feel very good.
Gwál hóochʼ ágé?
Maybe that's the end?
Aaá.
Yes.
Where is there a phone in? No phone in here?
Phone?
Yáadu á.
Here it is.
Oh, well I gotta call home for transportation.