Tlingit Conversation #46

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...daayax̱aḵá.

...I said.

This conversation is continued from #45. Speakers are Ḵaaklig̱éi (also spelled as Ḵaaklig̱é) Norman James, Dagé Winnie Atlin and Tánkʼ Sháayi Éesh Smith Katzeek. Recorded Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester August 14, 2010, in Carcross, YT, Canada.

ḴNJ = Ḵaaklig̱éi Norman James. DWA = Dagé Winnie Atlin. TSK = Tánkʼ Smith Katzeek. = NMHC = Naakil.aan Mark Hans Chester. YANS = Yesketch Aan.tookwasaax Norma Shorty.

Lingít transcription by X̱ʼunei Lance Twitchell. English translation by Kaaxwaan Éesh George Davis and Shákʼsháani Margaret Dutson with Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff. Edited by X̱ʼaagi Sháawu Keri Eggleston and by Yeiltʼoochʼ Tláa Collyne Bunn.

Ch'áakw, du éesh,

Long ago, his father,

TSK

haa eeg̱ayáak, hít,

(in) the house below us [towards the shore],

TSK

áa yéi téeyin, aan yee áa, áa yéi has téeyin, ch'áakw.

he used to live there, below the town, they used to live there, long ago.

TSK

Áaa, {heh}

Yes,

TSK

x̱at yaawatín.

he recognized me.

TSK

Áyá,

So,

TSK

ax̱ éet x̱'eiwatán.

he spoke to me.

TSK

Ḵut wooxeex tsá,

It got lost just then,

TSK

a toowú. [At shooḵ]

its inside [spirit]. [Laughter]

TSK

Kát kei wdigáat??? tle á, tle hóoch'. [At shooḵ]

The words piled up, ??? so that's it. [Laughter]

TSK

Yoo x̱'atángi ch'u tle a tóot shoowaxíx.

It ran out of words inside it just then.

ḴNJ

Aaá. [At shooḵ]

Yes. [Laughter]

TSK

Góok, {kaneesh-} sh kaneelneek, wa.é.

Go ahead and tell it [a story], you.

TSK

Dei ax̱ tóot shuwaxíx.

Now I ran out of words.

DWA

Tlóoʼ! [At shooḵ]

Whoops! [Laughter]

TSK

Jilḵáat Ḵwáani x̱ánt kawdiyaa, áyá tle hóoch'. [At shooḵ]

The Chilkat people show up, then that's it. [Laughter]

TSK

Ḵaaklig̱éi, wa.é, sh kaneelneek. Hm.

Ḵaaklig̱éi [Norman], you go ahead and tell us a story. Hmm.

DWA, ḴNJ

Uh, x̱át tsú,

Me too,

ḴNJ

sh kalneek áx̱ shuwaxeex. [At shooḵ]

I ran out of stories. [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Yaawat'áa yáa neil.

It's warm in here.

TSK

Aaa.

Yes.

ḴNJ

Ch'áakw áyá,

Long ago,

DWA

á áyá, at yátx'i sáani neil yéi dax̱ téeyin, aah?

the children used to be home, right?

DWA

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

Adáx̱ áwé wé sgóonde dax̱ woo.aat.

Then they went to school.

DWA

Aag̱áa áwé has du jeedáx̱ wuduwatee, wé has du yoo x̱'atángi.

And then it was taken from them, their language.

DWA

It's the government. Yéi duwasáakw, "government."

It's the government. They call it "government".

DWA

Hah. Yeedát ḵu.a tsu government áwé tsu dáanaa yaa ashunalxíx,

Now the government is running out of money,

DWA

yoo x̱'atángi has du jeedé,

giving them language,

DWA

haa jeedé. Aaá.

giving us language. Yes.

DWA, TSK

Tlél yaa ḵoosgé wé "government" yéi duwasáagu aa. [At shooḵ]

The one called "government" has no wisdom. [Laughter]

DWA, TSK

Aaá. Ayáx̱ áwé sh keelneek.

Yes, you're telling the truth.

TSK

Ḵa yóo,

And that,

DWA

ḵa yáa, yeedát tsú,

and this, now, this very moment,

DWA

yá haa yátx'u sáani tlél ayáx̱ has yéi jineiyí.

our children, itʼs not right, their work.

DWA

{Has dux̱íshin-} Haa dux̱íshdin.

They used to spank us [beat us].

DWA

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

Yeedát ḵu.aa áwé,

Now though,

DWA

yá haa yátx'u ch'a, ch'a daa sá,

our children, whatever,

DWA

tlél ayáx̱ yéi has jineiyí,

when their work is not right,

DWA

has du kaadéi yeeyaḵaayí,

when you say that to them,

DWA

policeman x̱ánde nashíxch.

they run every time to a policeman.

DWA

Aaá.

Yes.

DWA

Aadáx̱ áwé tsu wé haa,

From there again, our,

DWA

uháan, ḵu.aa áwé tsu we're in trouble here,

us, however, again we're in trouble

DWA

kaxéel' tóo yéi haa nateech, aaa, has du daat.

we're always in trouble, yes, according to them.

DWA, TSK, DWA

Ách áwé yeedát haa yátx'u sáani tlél {has du tun-} has du,

This is why now our children don't, their,

DWA

ḵushtuyáx̱ ch'a máa sá yéi has jineiyí.

it doesnʼt matter how hard they work.

DWA

Tíl áyáx̱ áwé ch'a tlákw wé government, chʼa tlákw.

It's always not right, the government, always.

DWA

Haa yátx'u sáani tlél áyáx̱ has ḵoostí.

Our young children are not living right.

DWA

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

{Tlél áyá}Tlél yá has du tláa tlél áyá,

They don't, their mothers, they don't

DWA

tlél has ayawunei.

they don't discipline them.

DWA

Haa gushé {máa sá de am} máa sá yéi jigax̱toonéi, áyá haa yátx'u, haa dachx̱ánx'i hás.

We donʼt know how we are going to work for the benefit of our children, our grandchildren.

DWA

Áyá, haat ḵux̱waatín yé, ḵu.aa

I travelled here, though,

TSK

dleit ḵáa ée dultóow Lingít x̱'éináx̱ yoo x̱'atánk. [At shooḵ]

the white people are being taught the Tlingit language. [Laughter]

TSK

A x̱oo aa tlax̱ k'idéin yoo has x̱'ayatánk áyá, aaá, dleit ḵáa.

Some of the white people speak very well. Yes.

DWA, TSK , DWA

Yóot, Fairbanks yóodáx̱ yéi duwasáakw, máa sá duwasáakw wéit?

Over there, from Fairbanks they call him, what do they call him there?

DWA

Jeff, Jeff Leer.

['Dr. Jeff Leer', ' Weihá', ' is a linguist who speaks and works with the Tlingit language.']

DWA

Oh yeah. Yisikóo gé?

Do you know him?

TSK, DWA

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

Yéil Ḵunéiyi.

Yéil Ḵunéiyi. [One of Dr. Jeff Leerʼs names]

NMHC

Yéil Ḵunéiyi.

DWA

Aaá, Lukaax̱.ádich, has...

Yes, the Lukaax̱.ádi clan...

NMHC

Lukaax̱.ádich {du jeet aw} du yáa wduwasáay. [du yéi wduwasáa.] Hm.

the Lukaax̱.ádi named him that. Hm.

NMHC, TSK

Ḵeixwnéich áwé, Nora.

Ḵeixwnéi did it, Nora. [Nora Dauenhauer]

NMHC

{Ax̱} tlél x̱wasakú. [At shooḵ]

I donʼt know. [Laughter]

NMHC

['Yee] Yee aayí áyá. Góok. [At shooḵ']

It's your guys' thing. Go ahead. [Laughter]

NMHC

Yan gé yéi yatee ldakát yáat'aa, ch'as,

Is it finished all of this, only,

TSK

x'áan yáx̱ {de, yéi} wé dachx̱án.

like they are angry???, the grandchildren.

TSK

Yisikóo yanyáat [yanwáat] kaxéel'x̱ sitee tle.

You know itʼs elder trouble then. [You know itʼs trouble from the elders then.]

TSK

Yeah.

DWA

Hóoch'.

That's all.

TSK

Haa dux̱íshdin uháan tsú.

We used to get spanked too.

TSK

Yeah.

DWA

Yeedát ḵu.aa,

And now

TSK

hél ḵoostí.

it doesn't exist.

TSK

Hél ḵaa x̱'éix̱ dus.aax̱ yeedát.

Nobody listens to anybody now.

TSK

Ḵushtuyáx̱ yáx̱ haa tláa gushé?

Itʼs as if our mothers don't matter, I guess?

DWA

Ch'áakw ḵáa {woosh yéi}woosh yáa ayadunéiyin.

Long ago people used to have respect for one another.

TSK

Hél yéi at utí de.

Now it's not like that.

TSK

Nope.

DWA

Tsu tleix̱ áyá ḵut yaa yanaxíx yá Lingít ḵustí.

And for forever, this Tlingit way of living is running astray.

DWA

Tle... chʼa g̱áa katoowa.aaḵw.

Then... We are really trying for it.

TSK, DWA

Tlax̱ a yáanáx̱ áwé.

It's too much.

ḴNJ

Dleit ḵáa yéi niyaanáx̱ has uwa.ét [uwa.át].

Through the white peopleʼs side they go.

ḴNJ

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

Ách áwé haa shagóon

That's why our heritage

ḴNJ

ḵut kei naxíx.

is getting lost.

ḴNJ

Ch'a tlákw yéi téeyi, {áyá nóox' át} a áyá nóox'x̱ gux̱satée yáaxʼ,

It's always been like this, it will become a shell here,

ḴNJ

haa shagóon daat ét [át].

things about our heritage.

ḴNJ

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

Ch'áagu ḵáawu,

Old timers,

ḴNJ

has du jee shagóon,

their heritage,

ḴNJ

has du shagóon daat át áwé, ch'a tlákw yaa has ayanasxíxin k'idéin yéináx̱ yoosh [woosh] een yéi jinéiyin.

their heritage, always they used to be running it well, through the way they worked together.

ḴNJ

Tél, tél yóo koowáatʼ áwé á yóox̱ x̱'ax̱waa.áx̱ch,

I always heard it's not that unfathomable [to bring it out]

ḴNJ

yoosh [woosh] een yéi jitooneiyí.

if we work together.

ḴNJ

Aag̱áa shákdé haa gux̱latseen.

And then maybe we'll be strong.

ḴNJ

Aaá.

Yes.

TSK

Yéi áwé.

That's it.

ḴNJ

Hél x̱wateen.

I canʼt see it. [I donʼt know.]

ḴNJ

Ayáx̱ gug̱wahéin, haa ḵusteeyí.

Thatʼs the right way for it to claim it, our way of life.

TSK

K'idéin katoo.aag̱ú,

If we try hard,

TSK

yagax̱toodláaḵ. Aaá.

we will succeed. Yes.

TSK, ḴNJ

Yéi áwé ax̱ tootée nooch.

That's how I always feel.

TSK

Yagax̱toodláaḵw; hél ḵut kei kg̱waxéex,

We will succeed; it won't get lost,

TSK

aaá, yá haa léelk'u hás ḵusteeyí.

yes, our grandparents' way of living.

ḴNJ, TSK

Ách áwé a daa yéi jix̱ané, x̱át tsú.

That's why I'm working on it, me too.

TSK

Haa tláa hás, has du éet ḵadasheeyít

So I can help our mothers.

TSK

Ḵa yá, G̱uneiwtí,

Also, G̱uneiwtí [Marsha Hotch],

TSK

du éex̱ x̱wadasheeyí,

when I help her,

TSK

yáa ḵaa éet latóowu haa neilx'.

the teacher at our home.

TSK

Áa has du éex̱ x̱adashee.

I regularly help them there.

TSK

Áyá,

So,

TSK

yéi s daayax̱aḵá nooch, hél ḵut kei kg̱waxeex,

I tell them it will not be lost,

TSK

haa Lingít ḵusteeyí.

our Tlingit way of living.

TSK

Hél ḵut kei kg̱waxeex.

It will not be lost.

TSK

Ax̱ éesh yéi a x̱'ayaḵáayin,

This is what my father used to say,

TSK

«Ḵushtuyáx̱ wáa sá teeyí, ús'aa,

"It doesn't matter what it is, soap,

TSK

sh daa yoo keedahéigi,

you rub on yourself,

TSK

ch'u Lingítx̱ i gux̱satée.

you'll still be Tlingit.

TSK

Hél aax̱ gag̱ee.óos'i á.» [At shooḵ]

Itʼs not something you will wash off." [Laughter]

TSK

Yéi á haa daayaḵáayin.

That's what he used to tell us.

TSK

Hél aax̱ gag̱ee.óos'i Lingítx̱ sateeyí. Mhm.

You're not going to wash off being a Tlingit. Yes.[Agreement]

TSK, ḴNJ

Du tuwáa sigóo gí dleit ḵáa wusteeyí. [At shooḵ}

He wanted to be a white person, didnʼt he. [Laughter]

DWA

Yoo x̱ʼadul.átgi áyá haa daayaḵáayin, «Át yisa.áx̱.

When people are talking, he used to say, "Listen.

TSK

Át yisa.áx̱.»

Listen."

TSK

Yeedát ḵwá áwé,

And now, however,

ḴNJ

daaḵw.aa ús.aa sé [sá] yéi g̱ax̱toosáa,

whichever soap we will call it,

ḴNJ

yéi gax̱too.oo,

we're going to put on, [use]

ḴNJ

yá dleit ḵáa haa daadáx̱ gax̱du.óos'i aa. [At shooḵ]

the white man will wash it off of us. [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Yéi áwé.

That's it.

TSK

Yee toowú klatseen!

You all be spiritually strong!

TSK

Yee toowú klatseen; aag̱áa áwé,

You all be spiritually strong; and then,

TSK

aag̱áa yagax̱toodláaḵ.

and then, we will succeed.

TSK

{Woosh} Woosh jín yei gax̱toosháat.

We will hold each other's hands.

TSK

A géide gax̱too.áat yáa dleit ḵáa ḵusteeyí,

We'll go against it, the white man's way of living,

TSK

Lingítx̱ haa sateeyí.

us being Tlingit.

TSK

Woosh tin yéi jitudaneiyí yagax̱toodláaḵ, yéi áyá ax̱ tutée nooch.

I always feel like if we're working together, we will succeed.

TSK

Hóoch' áyá tle yoo x̱'atánk.

This is it in talking now. [on this subject]

TSK

Kát shoowaxíx yáat.

It's all used up here.

TSK

Ḵʼateil.???

[This] container.???

TSK

Há. Yeewháan á wéide.

Well. Towards you guys.

TSK

X̱at x̱ʼawdixwétl.

My mouth is tired.

TSK

['At shooḵ']

['Laughter']

ḴNJ, TSK, DWA

Yeah, that's what my dad used to always say to me. Yeh. Doesn't matter how much soap you use, youʼre not going to {wa} wash off the Indian in you.

TSK, ḴNJ, TSK

You got the windows open, still it's warm in here, huh? Mhm.

TSK

Yeah. Heʼs got one window open.

DWA

You got two of 'em open. Aaa.

Oh.

TSK, DWA

It's the heat coming in, too, from outside.

YANS

Yeah. Thereʼs no

TSK, YANS

wind. There's no wind. So, the more windows you open the more heat you let in.

YANS, TSK, YANS

Long as it's not freezing cold air!

TSK

Well, and this way, thatʼs why, yeah.

YANS, DWA, YANS

It's the air flowing. Yeah.

YANS, NMHC

That's because of the sounds from out there. I can do a check to see if it really bothers it. Picks it up.

YANS, NMHC, YANS

Haat x̱aatéen, aadé yóo x̱oox̱ ḵwa á kát x̱at seiwax'áḵw dei. [At shooḵ]

I can see, among the back and forth, ??? however, I forgot it now. [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Tliyéix' yéi yee natí! [At shooḵ]

You guys be quiet! [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Sh eelk'átl'!

Be quiet!

DWA

Gwál a shoowú.

Maybe half of it.

NMHC

Gunalchéesh.

Thank you.

NMHC

Can't put a fan on either, huh? It would be loud in here.

TSK

Really, yeah.

DWA

Aaá. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

NMHC, TSK

Well, that way you can't tell if we make a mistake or not!

TSK

We can let it go for a little while.

NMHC

Yeah. Get some of the warm air out.

TSK

Yées daséikw.

Fresh air.

NMHC

Ok, so I opened the other door.

YANS

Oh, I can feel a breeze. Yeah, I opened the other door, so you should feel it, start feeling something.

DWA, YANS

But he's got the fan on, too. That's going to be too loud.

YANS

Yeah, we'll just have it go for a minute, yeah, get some fresh air.

NMHC, YANS, NMHC

Clear the air.

YANS

Three minutes.

TSK

Maybe it could work.

NMHC

I can hear it over here, and I'm hard of hearing.

TSK

Yeah.

DWA

Yeah, {I} I'm kind of hard of hearing too. Yeah. I got hearing aid but I don't use it!

ḴNJ , TSK, ḴNJ

Mine's in a drawer at home!

TSK

Too loud, too too loud. I went back there two times to turn the volume down? And it's still too loud. So I'm gonna have to take it back there again.

['Referring to the hearing aid place in Whitehorse']

ḴNJ

Hearing aids makes you more deaf, because theyʼre too loud.

YANS

Yeah. That's why I don't use it.

ḴNJ

Every time I put mine on, I always tell my kids, "Now you can't talk behind me!" [At shooḵ] "I can hear you!"

TSK

One time I was out there hunting, at that Skagway road. Fall time, in September. It was up in the mountain sides there. I hear bull moose talking way across the valley, [at shooḵ] with my hearing aids. Them guys they can't hear it. They thought I was just, they thought I was telling, tell them a fib. "You don't hear moose over there do you?" I said, "Yeah I am; heʼs still talking. A bull moose. "Wu, wu," [ḴNJ makes two grunts like a bull moose]. I don't know how long after then finally one of them hear it! [At shooḵ] And then they listen really good, then they could hear.

[Laughter] "Wu, wu" [ḴNJ makes two grunts like a bull moose].

ḴNJ

Yeah!

TSK

"I thought itʼs been talking there for an hour now!" [At shooḵ] "You hear it with that hearing aid?" I tell them, "Oh, yeah! I could hear good with that."

['Laughter']

ḴNJ

It seem like weʼve been here two hours. Itʼs only been what, forty-five minutes?

TSK

Aaá.

NMHC

Should be thirty dollars a minute, it would be all right.

TSK

Ha.é!

Goodness!

DWA

['At shooḵ']

['Laughter']

All

Huh, sit here all day! [At shooḵ]

['Laughter']

ḴNJ

['At shooḵ] X̱waanook', ' x̱át! [At shooḵ']

['Laughter] I sat down', ' me! [Laughter']

NMHC

He's done talking and record, play the recording over.

TSK

At x̱oodéi yéi áwé.

Through it, thatʼs it.

ḴNJ

A x̱oodé yoo x̱'atángi ch'as yáaxʼ yéi kḵwanóok. You didnʼt sit enough. [At shooḵ]

Iʼll sit here with the language. [You didnʼt sit enough.] [Laughter}

ḴNJ, TSK

Xwéi!

Whew!

TSK

['Yawn']

DWA

One of the things that we've kind of talked about, talking about, was the weather. And I've always wondered is, is there a way that we can come up with a way to call "vapor" or "evaporation". You know because in school, we have to teach kids about the water and how it flows through the world, and, that whole process of water.

NMHC

{Haa woonei}Yéi haa woonei, x̱á.

That happened to us, you see.

NMHC

You got to be a professor to talk about that!

TSK

Yeah.

DWA

Haaw. How you, what? You don't.

Well. How you, what? You donʼt.

NMHC, DWA, TSK

I never heard it in Lingít.

TSK

No. X̱át tsú. No.

No. Me too. No.

DWA, NMHC, TSK

I wouldn't know how to start.

TSK

It doesn't tie into anything that we do. Like if it was maybe for, ah, cooking food, that steam? That might. You know?

YANS

Oh, yeah. Like steam, yeah.

NMHC

I imagine they talked about the weather, you know. Oh yeah. But I never, I never learned it.

TSK, NMHC, TSK

They aam, theyʼre doing something wrong. Out there in the universe they done something wrong. Theyʼre doing something wrong, they still doing it. A long time ago, the old people used to say, when we was kids, my uncles used to say, "When nature set the woods on fire, that's for a reason."

ḴNJ

Yeah.

TSK

That's for a reason. They let it, they let it burn. Now, just when this fire start, they put it out, bombing with them water bomb[ers], put it out. And some of the old people, some of them say when that, you know, forest fire, has smoke, they do something, to help the universe. It was long time ago we used to have forest fires here all the time. And the weather stays, what, 50 below, 40 below, 60 below all winter. Don't have that no more, because ozone layer, I guess, burning out, getting holes in it or something. Too much exhaust smoke, maybe. Not enough wood smoke. Exhaust smoke would burn it, but wood smoke might help it. But the wrong kind of smoke go up there, you know up in the, where the ozone layer is, mmhm, maybe they cause some of this. Carbon dioxide. Mmhm. No word for that. That's why itʼs so warm now.

ḴNJ, NMHC, ḴNJ

Long time ago, {not} not too long ago, my uncle, my uncle, he kinda figured this thing out. One of my uncles. He knows over this big mountain over here, a big valley up there, it used to be full of snow all summer, right? Mmhm. And he see that thing was going lower and lower and lower summer by summer, eh? And he said, ah, I think this world is turning warm, he said. You got that snow it's starting to melt away. Pretty soon, he says, there's gonna be nothing there. See? There's nothing there now. Now this is only about 30 years ago heʼs saying that. He's passed on, but he was saying that, "It's gonna get warm." I guess he knows all these mountains. Thereʼs a lot of these mountains they used to have snow on them all summer.

KNJ

Mmhm.

['Agreement']

TSK

But, not no more. All I can say for global warming is, there's no more, no more permafrost in the Mother Earth. So if it rains, all the water just go Mother Earth, absorbs it right now, because there's no permafrost, nothing to hold the water back. No rain on the Mother Earth. And no rain, no berries, no snow. Long time ago we have deep snow here. Now we don't have that snow any more. It's all, {all human ac} human activity. It's turn this world around us. They just can't leave well enough alone. Some of the old people say, "They go up to the moon. They not supposed to go up to the moon. What they go up there for?"

ḴNJ

They want to meet Lingít.

TSK

['At shooḵ']

['Laughter']

All

They want to meet Lingít!

ḴNJ

['At shooḵ']

['Laughter']

All

Just tell them theyʼre coming to Carcross!

TSK

I wonder why they want to go to the moon meet Lingít, with lots of Lingít right here! [At shooḵ] This is where they should meet Lingít.

['Laughter']

ḴNJ

Well, maybe they are looking for that cow that jumped over the moon. [At shooḵ]

['Laughter']

TSK

Yaa ndaḵín, shákdéi. [At shooḵ]

It's flying, maybe. [Laughter]

NMHC

Yaa ndaḵín dzísk'w,

Flying moose,

ḴNJ

wasóos.

cow.

ḴNJ

Yaa ndaḵín wasóos kwshé yéi gax̱toosáa "penguin." [At shooḵ]

A flying cow, maybe we'll name it "penguin." [Laughter]

NMHC

Penguin ḵu.aa héen táak yaa ndaḵín. [At shooḵ]

Penguins though, are flying through water. [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Kei ḵunat'áa yá Lingít'aaní. Yeah. Mmhm.

Itʼs getting warmer, this world.

NMHC, ḴNJ, TSK

And then now all our trees are drying up.

DWA

Yeah. Everything.

TSK

And theyʼre all full of bugs, eh? Really bad.

DWA

You know what happened, there's no water.

ḴNJ

Yeah.

TSK

Thatʼs why. Itʼs too much. {They got} They got some kinda, I don't know, maybe some kind of a. You know one thing, {one} one old man, one old white man down Whitehorse, down Lake Labarge [Laberge]. He live down Lake Labarge. He say, "I used to eat ducks all the time," he say. "But now," he said, "I'm scared to eat ducks." I told him, "Why you scared to eat ducks anyway?" "Them wild ducks," he say, "I'm scared to eat them." "Well," he say, "I don't know what I might be dealing with because," he say, "if them ducks is dying off," he say, "what's killing them?"

['Lake Laberge']

ḴNJ, DWA, ḴNJ

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

TSK, DWA

He said, "Maybe they flying through that carbon dioxide going through all them cities," he said, "and that's what's killing them." And he said, "{Iʼm} Now I'm scared to eat ducks." See how he had it all figured, that old man? He's ninety years old, he figured that out.

ḴNJ

Well, yeah. He figured it out.

TSK

Yeah! Mmhm. "What's killing them ducks," he says, "is been gone."

ḴNJ

My sister was away, working {in them} in a store and they had a meat cutter in there. He was cutting meat and he come in early one morning and he telling my sister, "Hey, what are you guys gonna do, you Indians gonna do when you run out of beef? You gonna starve to death!" My sister told him, "You don't worry about us, you worry about yourself, you're the one that's gonna starve! We live off {the}off the land."

TSK

['At shooḵ']

['Laughter']

All

That's right, hey.

DWA

Yeah!

TSK

We can get all the fish we want to.

DWA

Yeah.

TSK

Well, we used to get all the fish we want. Now they got regulations. You gotta get, in Haines you gotta get a permit to go fishing.

TSK

Oh Yeah!

DWA, TSK

They told us we can't gaff fish anymore, either. But you read in the law book it says Native People have all the right to.

TSK

Yeah.

DWA, All

They still have it up here.

ḴNJ

Yeah.

TSK

We have it here, we still could.

DWA

Down Klukshu we used to gaff fish down there in that river. And big grizzly bear down just a little ways, and they fishing too. He catching fish too. They don't mind, they don't pay attention to us. We there, am.

ḴNJ

He's busy doing his own thing.

DWA

Yeah. Mmhm. They know weʼre fishing. They don't bother us, he donʼt bother us. He look, he look at us once in a while and then he "chooo", he jump in the water again.

ḴNJ, TSK, DWA, ḴNJ

Plus, with a gaff you can select which fish, ákwé? You can go after a certain one that you want.

['is that right?']

NHC

Yeah. Yeah.

ḴNJ

Well, back in our, my old days, when I was growing up, my dad used to go across and get maybe ten, twelve, fish and come home.

TSK

Mmhmm.

NMHC

{Never} Never catch more than he needed. Now, you put a net in the water, you get sixty fish at one time. What are you gonna do with it?

TSK

Another thing too, long time ago when, ah, well, Norman, he say it the same thing. If his dad or his, somebody set net? The whole village get fish.

DWA

Yeah.

TSK

Yeah. Give everybody fish.

TSK, DWA

Yeah.

ḴNJ

Somebody kill a moose,

DWA

everybody get, get meat.

ḴNJ, DWA

Oh, yeah.

TSK

Divide it all up. Not any more.

DWA

Not any more is right.

TSK

People kill moose? You don't hear nothing about it.

DWA

Heck, yeah.

TSK

{Next} next week after that somebody else go hunt moose.

ḴNJ

Yeah.

TSK

More moose meat coming to them. Get more moose. Yeah.

ḴNJ, TSK

{How} How do you say that in Lingít?

NMHC

With they, go and set a net and they get a bunch of fish, they divide it amongst everyone.

NMHC

G̱eiwú yéi has anasneech.

They'd always set their nets.

DWA

Aadáx̱ áwé, ts'ootaat,

After that, in the morning,

DWA

shayadihéin has anasg̱eiwúch.

they'd always net a lot of fish.

DWA

Aag̱áa áwé Lingít x̱oodé {has ana-}

And then, among the people they,

DWA

has anal.átch.

they'd take it to them.

DWA

Tle x̱áat jiḵoox̱.

Then sharing the fish. [Then taking it to share or contribute.] [Dagé making a hand gesture with both hands for this.]

DWA

Ch'a ldakát,

All [of it],

DWA

haa jeedé yéi daaduné wé x̱áat.

the fish is given out to all of us.

DWA

Ḵa wé dzísk'w tsú, dzísk'w áwé

And the moose too, moose

DWA

wudujaag̱í,

when they kill it,

DWA

ch'a ldakát Lingít

every person

DWA

x̱oox̱ jee een {du}

among them,

DWA

has du jeedé yéi daaduné,

it is given to them,

DWA

ch'a ldakát.

all.

DWA

Yáa... táakw yaa ḵunahéini,

This... when winter is coming,

DWA

yáa Carcross,

this Carcross,

DWA

woosh, yáat'aa,

together, this thing,

DWA

aadé yéi has gug̱atée yé táakw niyís, ch'a ldakát.

that's the way they'll be, preparing for winter, everything [everyone].

DWA

Tlél aa sá yáaxʼ yéi tée neech.

Nobody is always here.

DWA

Ch'a ldakát {haat} has du tl'átgi kaadéi ana.átch,

Everybody is going to their land [their trapline areas],

DWA

g̱aatáa een.

with traps.

DWA

Aadáx̱ áwé has gug̱a.aadí, ch'a ldakát,

When they left, all of them,

DWA

woosh áwé anáx̱ ana.átch.

they'd gather together through there.

DWA

Ha, dus.éeych woosh x̱'éidáx̱ at dux̱á.

Well, they'd cook and eat together.

DWA

Aadáx̱ áwéis,

From there,

DWA

táakw shuwuxeexí,

when winter is over,

DWA

ḵutaan naa.át??? yé

summer clothes??? place

DWA

yeisú {haa} haadé ana.átch ch'a ldakát yá Carcross-dé.

then everyone all comes here to Carcross.

DWA

Ch'a ldakát woosh yáat yéi teeyí, {tsu yéi} tsu yéi ch'a ldakát at dus.ée neech.

When everyone is back here, then everyone always cooks.

DWA

Woosh x̱'éide at dux̱á.

They eat together.

DWA

Sagú een. Mmhm.

With happiness. [Agreement]

DWA

Yeedát ḵu.aa tél yéi utí.

Now it's not that way.

DWA

Dax̱ has shig̱eiḵ yeedát.

They're stingy [in sharing] now.

DWA

Ayáx̱ ákwé?

Is that right?

DWA

Ḵaaklig̱éi?

Norman?

DWA

Aaa.

Yes.

ḴNJ

Húch á awsikóo.

He's the one that knows. [gesturing towards Norman]

DWA

Yeedát ḵu.aa chʼas yóo dleit ḵáa áwé daa s yawsitáḵ. [At shooḵ]

Now though they take care of just those white people. [Laughter]

ḴNJ, TSK

Uháan ḵu.aa áwé a kát has seiwax'áḵw.

Us, however, they have forgotten us.

ḴNJ

Haa sháade héni áwé,yaatʼaa.

Our leader, that one.

ḴNJ

Yéi áwé, áwé yéi áwé s x̱aatéen.

That is how I see them.

ḴNJ

Self government.

ḴNJ

Tlél ultseen wé self government. [At shooḵ]

Itʼs weak, that self-government. [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Dziyáak,

A little while ago,

NMHC

dziyáak yagiyee, ax̱ een,

a few days ago,

NMHC

kayineegí {ah}

you told me {ah}

NMHC

{am} atk'átsk'u kei neewaadí, {aam}

how, when you're a child growing up,

NMHC

at shooḵ,

laughter,

NMHC

at shooḵ yoo x̱'atángi yáx̱,

laughter was like language,

NMHC

woosh x̱oo {yoo x̱'adu- ya-} yoo x̱'awdudli.átk.

people talking amongst each other.

NMHC

When we were over in that other room? Remember what you said to me? Something, how they used to joke around with each other. Oh.

NMHC, ḴNJ

Oh, woosh yoo x̱'atángi tóonáx̱ áwé ch'a tlákw has at shooḵ neejín. Aaa.

They always used to be laughing while speaking together. [Together through the language, they always used to be laughing.] Yes.

ḴNJ, TSK

Ḵushtuyáx̱ gootʼé sé, [gootʼá sá]

It doesn't matter where,

ḴNJ

yoosh [woosh] heináx̱ has wu.aadí,

together through this place theyʼre going,

ḴNJ

tle at shooḵ déi át yéi yee teex̱.??? [At shooḵ]

then laughter now, thatʼs the way you are.??? [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Yéi áwé s x̱'ax̱a.áx̱jin,

That's what I always used to hear them say,

ḴNJ

áaa, yep,

yes, yep,

NMHC, ḴNJ

yéi x̱at kusigéink'i.

when I was little.

ḴNJ

Aa, ch'a tlákw tsú has {yoo x̱'at-}

Yes, they always

ḴNJ

ch'as yoo x̱'atángi tin áwé, tin shákdéi,

just with language, with it perhaps,

ḴNJ

yaa has ayanasxíxin has du shagóon daadé.

they used to run it according to their heritage.

ḴNJ

Has du yoo x̱'atángi tóonáx̱,

Through their language,

ḴNJ

shákdé, {k'idéin yei s at ya- a} k'idéin yéi [nax̱as-]

probably, really well

ḴNJ

has adaanéiyin has du dachx̱ánx'i,

they used to make it, for their grandchildren,

ḴNJ

has du dei ya.áak.

a trail, a place for them. [a place set aside for them].

ḴNJ

Yóo {tl-} naaliyéi has du ya.áak.

Their place set aside for them, some distance away.

ḴNJ

Ḵa has du yoo x̱'atángi tóonáx̱ tsús shákdé

And through their language too, probably,

ḴNJ

naaliyéi has ayatéen,

they can see a far away place, [a place some distance away]

ḴNJ

has du shukwaadé.

ahead of them.

ḴNJ

Yeedát ḵu.aa áwé,

Although now,

ḴNJ

tlél has du lú yáanáx̱ has ayatéen. [At shooḵ]

they can't see beyond their noses. [Laughter]

ḴNJ

Hél dáanaa i jee yéi uteeyí... {He don't see} He donʼt see much past the third part of his nose. [At shooḵ]

If you donʼt have money...[Laughter]

TSK, ḴNJ

Hél dáanaa i jee yéi uteeyí, hél aadé i éet g̱atudisheeyi yé yeedát.

If you don't have money, there's no way we can help you now.

TSK

Aaá.

Yes.

ḴNJ

Ch'áagu ḵáawu woosh éet dasheeyin, x̱á.

The old timers used to help each other, see.

TSK

Yeah.

DWA

Hél yéi utí de.

It's not that way now.

TSK

No.

ḴNJ

Tléik'.

No.

ḴNJ

Tlél dáanaanáx̱ kei kʼéiyi kʼéiyi. I jeetx̱ x̱á yagax̱dutée.

It wonʼt get better through money. They'll take it away from you, you see.

TSK

Hél ḵaa éede gax̱dushee.

They're not going to help anyone.

TSK

Tánk', gwál has du een kananeek x'wán wé at shooḵ

Smitty, maybe tell them that funny

NMHC

yoo x̱'atángi, Midori aayí.[at shooḵ]

language, Midori's own. [Midoriʼs joke.] [laughter]

NMHC

Yea, I forgot all {ab} of how it went!

TSK

Gwál tléik'. Nope.

Maybe not. Nope.

NMHC, TSK

That's another good story.

TSK

[At shooḵ] A kát [yaa] x̱at sanax'áḵw.

[Laughter] I am forgetting it.

NMHC

We will have to have her tell it. [at shooḵ]

['laughter']

NMHC

They sure did joke around with each other, huh. Aaá.

Yes.

NMHC, TSK

Nora áwé, du éek', Johnny yoo dusáagun.

Nora, her brother, his name was Johnny.

NMHC

«Ch'a daa sá,

Whatever,

NMHC

ch'a daa sá haa x̱oox' yéi yatee,»

whatever is among us,

NMHC

{ax̱ een kaw-} ax̱ een akaawaneek,

he told me,

NMHC

«I léelk'w! I léelk'w áwé!

"Your grandparent! That's your grandparent!

NMHC

Wé gúxʼaa áwé i léelk'w yankáx'! [at shooḵ]

That cup, itʼs really your grandparents.

NMHC

I léelk'w, i léelk'w, i léelk'w, i léelk'w, i léelk'w, i léelk'w, i léelk'w.

Your grandparent, your grandparent, your grandparent, your grandparent, your grandparent, your grandparent, your grandparent. your grandpa,.

NMHC

How many generations back!» [at shooḵ]

['laughter']

NMHC

Ḵúnáx̱ áwé wutulishooḵ.

We really made him laugh.

NMHC

Ḵoowak'ít'.

They picked berries.

TSK

Aaá.

Yes.

NMHC

Gwál Costco-dáx̱ shákdé,

Maybe from Costco, perhaps,

NMHC

{ḵoowakʼéetʼ} ḵoowak'ít'.

they picked them.

NMHC, ḴNJ

Ná! Déi yakʼéi ákyé?

Here! Itʼs good now, isnʼt it.

TSK

Yix̱á!

Eat it! [You all eat it!]

NMHC

Góok, at yix̱á déi!

Go ahead and eat now!

DWA

Tlákw áyá at x̱ax̱á.

I'm always eating.

TSK

Ji! Ch'a aa tlákw áwé jeewanei á.

Gee. Sheʼs always working there.

TSK

Haa x̱'éix̱ at dutee tlákw. Máayatee yéixʼ yigoodí tlél at gag̱eex̱aa. [at shooḵ]

They always give us lots of food. Sometimes where you go, you won't eat. [laughter]

TSK, DWA

['Yan x̱at] Yan yaa x̱at nalnétl. [at shooḵ']

I'm getting fat. [Laughter]

NMHC

Hél g̱unéi kg̱eegoot.

You won't start walking.

TSK

Yáat'aa áyá, kuḵax̱áa ḵu.a.

This one, I will eat though.

TSK

I'm running out of gas, partner!

TSK

Okay!

NMHC

{Iʼm not} I'm not tired but I'm running out of things to talk about.

TSK

They talk about that flood, remember that long time ago flood? Around here? You have, ah. You could tell about that, say, that thing?

YANS

Oh, yeah. That water line. Aaá. You can see the water line right around.

DWA, YANS, DWA

Yeah.

YANS

You could talk about that. You could tell him, that story. That would be an awesome thing to have recorded.

YANS

Wáa sá??? tʼáakdei áyá. Eeḵ.

What side is it on? ??? The shore.

DWA, YANS

Right now? Okay. Mmhm.

YANS

Lis'é!

Wait!

ḴNJ

We used to shovel out that lagoon, they were hand shovel. Lingít x̱'éináx̱! Just to go skating, just to go skating. Hah.

In Lingít!

ḴNJ, DWA, ḴNJ, NMHC

A saayí gé ḵudzitee "ice skating", Lingít x̱'éináx̱?

Does the name for "ice skating" exist in Tlingit?

NMHC

Tléik'.

No.

DWA

Tlél x̱wasakú.

I don't know.

DWA

Haaw, tsú tlél x̱wasakú.

Well, I don't know either.

TSK

Yeah, I was thinking about that.

ḴNJ

Long time ago, ch'áagudáx̱,

from long ago,

ḴNJ

the old people. They would have figured out, they would have been manufacturing all this kind of stuff here, like, you know. All this new machinery. They were manufacturing names for everything. Spoon, knife...everything. And I'm sure of our ancestors, eighty, hundred years ago, they would have figured out a name for that helicopter now!

ḴNJ

Oh, yeah!

TSK

See? Now we don't do that. Weʼre too busy fooling around with white people and self government! And where everything come right to a stop. Nothing. Self government. I pretty near cry when I hear that self government, when they signed it. Because I know what was going to happen. This is it. Me, I would have tell the government, you clean up all the contamination sites before I sign land claims. If it take you 10,000 years to clean it up. That's what I would have told them. Mmhm. They running across, they running across Indian land right across there, end of that bridge, it all Native land. And theyʼre driving across there, theyʼre not getting no royalty, nothing for it.

ḴNJ, TSK, ḴNJ

We did for a while. I don't know what happen at the end. {I donʼt} I don't hear no more about it.

DWA

Well, {they got} theyʼre getting it maybe for themselves.

ḴNJ

I ask about it, different times. I donʼt, I never get an answer. I told them, I say I'm still waiting for an answer.

DWA

These Eldersʼ Council, letʼs ask about it. Letʼs all ask. We have this Elders Council this time. You know, when I think about it, if we had ah, if we had some kind of eldersʼ gathering, I think we, we might make a difference, we might make a move. Right now weʼre at a stand still. But they can't get, if we can get all fourteen First Nations, together, working together, all fourteen First Nations people, I think we could pick up this building and pack it over there 400 feet and set it down there. That's how much power there is,

ḴNJ

mmhm,

DWA

they should have.

ḴNJ

Right.

TSK

That's how much power they should have. That's if all fourteen First Nations people working together. But theyʼre all individual, and the government make boundary lines between them and everything. {We lost} {We lost} We lost everything, we lost, what little we lost, we lost, that's lots. Come look at it. Come look at it right way.

ḴNJ

No, haa yoo x̱'atángi, daa yoo x̱'atángi, thereʼs no end to it.

No, our language, about language, thereʼs no end to it.

ḴNJ

Yeah.

TSK

No end to it. {Itʼs} It's there.

ḴNJ

I'm intrigued by what you said, that they would come up with names for things. Bicycle.

NMHC

Yeah.

ḴNJ

Automobile.

NMHC

Yeah.

ḴNJ

Couch.

NMHC

Everything, they would have names by it now, by now. But ah, we don't practice it. We don't, what we don't have is a discussion. Thatʼs we don't have. Mmhm. A discussion, should be able to find out just about anything we want to know. Because thereʼs somebody {in that, in} in that twenty people crowd, theyʼs gonna know something. Or mention something and then they all just have a discussion on it. They gonna find out what it is! They gonna find out what they call it. They gonna find out the background and everything. Mmhm.

ḴNJ

They'll describe it, huh?

NMHC

Yeah.

ḴNJ

Yeah. So how could we describe a helicopter? Ha.é!

['mild surprise']

ḴNJ, NMHC

Oh, ah. [at shooḵ] Me, I would name it, I would name it after mallard duck.

['laughter']

ḴNJ

Aaá.

NMHC

Kindachooneit.

Mallard duck.

ḴNJ

Oh, yeah.

TSK

Mmm.

TSK

You know how mallard duck take off, straight up?

ḴNJ

Mmhm.

NMHC

That's the same way that helicopter. That's what I would name it.

ḴNJ

Mmhm.

NMHC

How about skidoo?

DWA

Skidoo?

ḴNJ

Dleit káxʼ.

On snow.

DWA

Dleit káa, ká át nashxíxch.

It runs around on snow.

DWA

It run around on top of the snow. That sound good? Mmhm. For skidoo?

DWA

I don't know. I know that skidoo too, my uncle. I want to say something about that skidoo. Must be about, well letʼs see, maybe about seventy years. Seventy years ago. You see that caterpillar hauling freight to Atlin. You know the way the tracks running on that caterpillar? {He} He figures that he could makes, he could make smaller machine out of that thing with that tracks running like that and make it go.

ḴNJ

Mhm.

NMHC

You see what he was thinking about. I was just wondering how he was thinking. It would work under the same principle as that tracks turning on that caterpillar, pulling them sleighs.

ḴNJ

Mmhm.

NMHC

And he, he said, he could make smaller machine out of that. And they run around faster through the woods, through the woods and everything. He had that all figured out. It must be about thirty-five, forty years after that, skidoo come out.

ḴNJ

Mm.

NMHC

And then he tell me, heʼs. That's my uncle, you know Uncle Joe? "You see," he said, "that's the one I was talking about, talking to you about." "That's the one right there, that machine," he said. "I see that," he said, "in my, in my dream."

ḴNJ

Mm.

NMHC

See? He see that in his vision. You see? I think our ancestors was using mostly, all these kind of things you know,{is, is, is} is come out. And the way they were working together all the time, discussion. And their language, that's why theyʼre so sensitive with everything. The language is sensitive, in other words. It still is. And they were using that for manufacturing too, I guess. But we, we have,now we have the language but we don't have no manufacturing. Like I said about that helicopter a little while ago. I'm trying to figure out penguin, you see.

ḴNJ

Mmhm.

NMHC

And it didn't take you long to say, "What they call it?" You see, I asked, this, this little, and us little discussion we had here today, thatʼs just small, little. Yeah. But that's lots, just that one word. What you said about that penguin.

ḴNJ, NMHC, ḴNJ

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