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Tlingit Conversation #90
Speakers are Shakʼsháani Margaret Dutson and G̱unéiwti Marsha Hotch. Recorded April 4, 2013, in Juneau, AK, at the University of Alaska Southeast, Egan Building, Room 226, by University of Alaska Southeast students. Camera: Susie Edwardson. Audio: Erin Tripp. Lighting: Charles McKenry, Jr. Talent care: Liana Wallace. Grip: Nemasia Cadiente-Moala.
This material is based on work supported by National Science Foundation grant BCS-0853788 to the University of Alaska Southeast with Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff as Principal Investigator and by National Endowment for the Humanities fellowship 266286-19 to Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this material are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Science Foundation or National Endowment for the Humanities.
Tlingit transcription by X̱ʼaagi Sháawu Keri Eggleston with Gax̱daakashú Joe Hotch. English translation by Shakʼsháani Margaret Dutson with Ljáaḵkʼ Alice Taff, and by X̱ʼaagi Sháawu Keri Eggleston with Gax̱daakashú Joe Hotch. Edited by X̱ʼunei Lance Twitchell.
SYMBOLS: {false start}. (added for clarity). [translator/transcriber's note]. ??? = can’t understand. «Lingít quotation marks». [Time-aligned text for this video was accomplished using ELAN ((Versions 6.0 (2020), 6.1 (2021), and 6.3 (2022) [Computer software]. Nijmegen: Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics, The Language Archive. Retrieved from https://archive.mpi.nl/tla/elan]
Neilú wa.é? [Neilú gé wa.é?]
Are you home?
Tsu i jeedé,
Again to you,
Aaa. Tsu i jeedé x̱ʼakḵwadatáan gwá?
Yes. Maybe I am going to call you back?
Chʼa yan satí.
Just put it down.
X̱at x̱ʼeeya.áx̱ch gé?
Do you understand me?
Ok. What Iʼm trying to say is just hang up and Iʼll call you again on a different phone. Yeah, Iʼm going to call you back.
Tsu i jeedé x̱ʼakḵwadatáan.
I will call you again.
Yáatʼaa.
This is the one.
[Phone ringing.] Hello.
G̱uneiwtí áyá.
This is G̱uneiwtí.
Oh, uhuh.
Wáa sá s iyatee?
How are you?
Yakʼéi ḵúnáx̱.
Really good.
Aaá.
Yes.
Daa sáwé yéi daa.eené yáa yagiyee?
What were you doing today?
Gáande yaa {kḵwaḵóo} kwḵaḵóox̱ áyá.
Iʼm going to go out driving.
Tle chʼas {yan yaa yan x̱ʼa yan yi}
Just as soon as
yan sh kawtoolneegídáx̱.
we are finished talking stories to each other.
Ḵuwakʼéi.
The weather is good.
Aaá, tlél ax̱ tuwáa ushgú neil x̱a.aayí.
Yes, I donʼt want to sit at home.
Aaá, x̱át tsú, tlél ax̱ tuwáa ushgú yáa,
Yes, me too, I donʼt like,
yáa neilxʼ yéi x̱at wuteeyí.
to be at home either.
Tlákw áwé yéi x̱adaayaḵáa nooch ax̱ x̱án.aa,
I always am telling my husband,
« Yagei a kát tuwaygút ??? yá wáa sáwé tsu yoo eeḵúx̱k? »
“Weʼve been all over ???, so why are you driving around again?”
Aaá.
Yes.
« Tlél gáan áwé koox̱shatán. »
“Iʼm not in the habit of being outside.”
Yáa shaatkʼátskʼux̱ x̱at sateeyídáx̱ áwé yéi x̱at yatee.
Ever since I was a little girl Iʼve been that way.
Aaa.
Yes.
Tlél tsu chʼas aanídé tlél ax̱ tuwáa sagóo {noojin} nooch át woosheexk.
I donʼt want to just go to town again to run around.
Hél "take a walk," Chʼa yeedádidé yéi x̱at yatee.
Not “take a walk,” Iʼm like that up to now.
Wáang̱aneens áwé tlél ax̱ tuwáa ushgóowun chʼa gáande x̱wagoodí.
Sometimes I didnʼt used to want to just go out walking.
Aaá.
Yes.
Already, itʼs just,
De chʼa yáa,
xʼoondahéen sá dei?
how many times already.
Wáang̱aneens ax̱ yís xʼáant unúkch ax̱ x̱án.aa
Sometimes my husband gets upset with me.
« Tlax̱ ḵúdáx̱ áwé neil yí.
“Youʼre in the house way too much.
Neil ee.áa. Mmm.
Youʼre sitting at home. Oh.
Aadé ḵuwakʼéiyi yé. Hél.
The way the weather is nice. Not.
Ldakát ḵáa áwé {na át}
Everyone is
ldakát yéide ana.átch.
people are going everywhere.
Wáa sáwé át ee.aa, chʼa hél i tuwáa ushgú chʼa gáande eegoodi? » Mhm.
Why are you sitting around, you just donʼt like going out?” Yeah.
Goodé sá gag̱eeḵóox̱?
Where are you going to go?
Am, hél x̱wasaku yeisú.
Um, I donʼt know yet.
Aaá.
Yeah.
Chʼa s,
Just,
chʼa át áyá kḵwaḵóox̱.
Iʼm just going to ride around.
Ax̱ tuwáa sigóo wé,
I would like,
yeedát áwé tlél ax̱ tuwáa ushgú.
I donʼt want to right now.
Aatlein yagéi ax̱ yéi jinéiyí chʼa aan.
I still have a lot of work to do.
Chʼa aan ágé gáande kḵwashéex.
And with that, am I going to go running out?
Seig̱án áwé tsá ḵúnáx̱ a káa
Tomorrow, only then, really on it
yéi jikḵwaanéi.
Iʼm going to work.
Ahaa.
Yeah.
Yeedát ḵwa hél ax̱ tuwáa ushgú.
Right now, though, I donʼt want to.
Yá xáanaa tsú yóode áwé kuḵagóot, x̱áawé,
Tonight also Iʼm going there, really,
{sá awuská um}
áa woosh kaanáx̱ kei s da.átch yé.
the place where they gather.
Aaá.
Yeah.
Aadé yéi kḵwaḵóox̱ á tsú.
Iʼm driving over there too.
Yakʼéi.
Good.
Mhm.
Yes.
Hél áx tuwáa ushgú yagéi yáx̱ yagyee, wáa sáwé x̱at woonee?
I donʼt want it to be like a big day, what happened to me?
Tlél ax̱ tuwáa ushgú neil x̱a.áa.
I donʼt like sitting home.
X̱át ḵu.aa Lingít yoo x̱ʼatángi
As for me, Tlingit language
ḵaa éet
to them
kḵwalatóow yáa xáanaa.
Iʼm going to be teaching it tonight.
Oh, góoxʼ sá Bill Ray?
Oh, is it at Bill Ray (Center)?
Tláaykʼ.
No.
Chʼa yáaxʼ.
Right here
Ó.
Oh.
Xʼoonínáx̱ sá yatee wé has ée kg̱ilatóow ḵu.oo?
How many people are they, the ones you are going to teach?
{tlél} hél ax̱ aayí áwé chʼa du éet áwé
That isnʼt mine, just to him
kḵwadashée wé ḵóo atlatoowú.
Iʼm helping the teacher.
Wé naakéede áwé, {ḵu}
Up north,
Anchorage-dé ḵukḵwatéen.
Iʼll be traveling to Anchorage.
Alice, gé?
Is it Alice?
Tláaykʼ, Lance.
No, Lance.
John.
Lance.
Oh.
Am,
Um,
Ishmael daat x̱waditóow.
I read about Ishmael.
Daa sáwé du daat iyatóow?
What did you read about him?
Yóotʼát áwé {yéi s a}
That one that
wé
the
motion picture áwé yéi s agux̱sanéi.
theyʼre going to work on the motion picture.
Aaá, ḵúnáx̱ áwé yakʼéi du play-i.
Yes, his play is really good.
Ahah,
Uhuh,
tlél tsú x̱sakú.
I donʼt know that either.
Am, {tlél} tlél du eet x̱ʼeix̱ataanch.
Um, I havenʼt talked to him yet.
{has du}
Du daat át ḵux̱aa.áx̱ch.
I have been hearing things about him.
Ḵúnáx̱ áwé
Really
am, du tuwáa sigóo aw̃sikoowú Lingít yoo x̱ʼatángi.
um, he wants to know the Tlingit language.
Ḵa tsu
And also
du,
his,
du shagooní áwé,
his lineage and history,
ldakát át a daat du tuwáa sigóo aw̃sikoowú.
he wants to know all about it.
Ḵúnáx̱ áwé sh tóo altóow.
He's really studying.
Aax̱ áwé ANB aadé
When ANB [Alaska Native Brotherhood, founded 1912]
aadé has wudinaḵ yé shuxʼáanáx̱, shuxʼáanáx̱
where they stood up at first, when it first
{ḵoowdz} ḵoowusteeyí,
came to be,
Aaá.
Yes.
eeshandéin yoo s kaawashóo ax̱ éesh {tóo} tóo yéi s wootee ḵa ax̱ tláa.
they were suffering, my father was in it and my mother.
Ahah.
Uhuh.
Gas boat yít áwé has naḵúx̱jin.
They used to always travel by gas boat.
Wanachích déinde
In the vicinity of Pleasant island
ḵa Sheetʼká.
and Sitka.
Gooxʼ sá yakg̱waxéex wé convention-dé a kaadé s ḵunatínjin.
Wherever the (ANB) convention was going to happen, they used to travel there on it (boat).
Gas boat yéi {tlél tlél}
The gas boat
hél ulgé wé gas boat, Háaw!
the gas boat wasn't very big, Well!
wé yaakw.
the boat.
Chʼa aan áwé has at koo.átch.
And still they hurried there.
Áxʼ áwé, Kʼé,
It was there, See,
convention yaa yanaxíxi áwé
when the convention is in session,
kée kei uwaxíx yá land suit.
the land suit came up.
Ahah.
Uhuh.
Áwé a daat {wé} kagux̱laneek.
That's what they're going to talk about. [This narrative is what Marge Dutson's parents told their children.]
Ḵa yá
And this
hél ḵaa tuwáa ushgú yá Lingít vote yéi adaaneiyí.
(white) people didn't want the Tlingit to vote.
Wáa sáwé s du tuwáa has yatee?
Why was it they are feeling that way?
Áwé ash tín a káx̱ has ḵuwligaaw.
And with her they fought for it.
Tle wé Mrs. Peratrovich-ch áwé tsú yaawadlaaḵ.
Then Mrs. Peratrovich, she too succeeded.
Ax̱ sáni tsú a tóo yéi wootee, Sandy Stevens.
My uncle Sandy Stevens was in it too.
Aaá.
Oh.
Ḵúnáx̱ a káx̱ yoo x̱ʼeiwatán
He really spoke up on behalf of it.
Hél keitáanáx̱ ḵudaawuḵá.
He wasnʼt apologetic when he spoke to them.
Chʼa aan áwé
Even then
tle ldakát áwé has du káa has wudinaaḵ yá Lingít ḵu.oo.
all the Tlingit people stood up for it. [The entire Tlingit community worked, meeting and contributing money, a quarter or dollar at a time, to send representaties to Wasington, DC, in order to defend their civil rights as American citizens.]
{á yéi} Á yawtuwadlaaḵ.
And we succeeded.
Mhm.
Yes.
{ya} Ḵa yá haa land suit-i tsú.
And our land suit too.
{a tóonáx̱ ḵuyei} A tóonáx̱ has ayaawatée.
They put it through.
Aaa, uháan tsú,
Yes, we ourselves, too,
{aa} shuxʼáa aa yéi ax̱ x̱án.aa,
my first husband,
{násʼgi} násʼk yakyee ḵa násʼk xáanaa áwé tlél wutoox̱éixʼw.
we didn't sleep for three days and three nights.
Tle ldakát wáa sá haa yakoogé.
We were all kinds of plentiful.
Áwé John Borbridge ḵa, am, ah,
John Borbridge and um, uh,
{wé} tle a kát x̱at seiwaxʼáḵw du saayí.
then I forgot his name. [Roy Brown]
Áwé Washington D.C.-de s du éech yawtusiwóo.
We sent them to Washington, D. C.
Áwé ltín,
So you see,
William Paul?
William Paul?
Hah? William Paul?
Huh? William Paul?
Tléikʼ, tléikʼ.
No. No.
Yées ḵáa áwé yeisú John Borbridge yáx̱.
He was still a young man, like John Borbridge.
Kei woowáat. Ó.
He was growing. Oh.
Wáa sáwé du kát x̱at seixʼa, Brown is his last name.
How can I forget, Brown is his last name.
Brown, Judson Brown.
Justin Brown du kéekʼ.
Justin Brown's younger brother.
Austin Brown.
Du kéekʼ.
His younger brother.
Austin.
{hél hél}
Tlél a tóo yéi wutee hú.
He wasn't in it though.
Du kéekʼ áwé a tóo yéi wootee.
His younger brother was in it.
Áwé hás, dáx̱náx̱ has du éech yawtusiwóo Washington D.C.-dé.
It was them, two of them we sent to Washington. D. C.
???
Wáa sá chʼa neil x̱a.áa yóo ax̱ jeet x̱ʼawduwatán.
I was just sitting at home when I got a phone call.
Wé
That's when
Washington D.C. áa kei uwaxíx
it came up there in Washington, D. C.
Yá
This
yéi áyá s haa wuliyaaḵw,
this is how they portrayed us,
« Kwátaa áwé {haa} yee jeedé kagax̱tootée
“We'll give you a quarter (of a dollar).
{yá násʼk}
wé 75 cents ḵu.aa
that 75 cents though
yee jeeyís yei gax̱tulasháat.» Yéi áyá has akaawa.aaḵw. Not really one dollar.
we will hold onto it for you.” This is how they tried it.
{a} ??? áwé s awliyaaḵw.
They portrayed it that way.
Has tóog̱aa tóon has wootee, Lingít tóon wootee.
It offended their sense of what was right, it offended the Tlingit people
Tle yéi áyá woosh kaanáx̱ wutudi.aat.
This is when we gathered together.
Á áwé,
This one,
Roy Brown yóo duwasáakw
Roy Brown was his name,
ḵa
and
John Borbridge
aadé s ḵuwateen Washinton DC.
they left for Washington, D. C.
Wé Lingít
The Tlingit,
Lingít aa
the Tlingit ones,
« Yee at.óowu yéi nay.oo!
“Wear your at.óow (clan regalia)!
Aag̱áa dúk haa yáade gax̱yináaḵ aan. »
Then you all stand facing us with it.”
Yéi áwé {tle l} yan has shukawduwajáa.
That's the way they were advised.
Uháan ḵu.a áwé dáanaa ḵúnáx̱ a daa yéi jitoonéi.
Us, though, we were really working to raise money.
???
{ldakát yéi yoo}
Ldakát ḵáa áwé tsu,
Everybody
áwé áx̱ katoogwált.
we are there knocking on doors.
« Chʼa tléixʼ dáanaa haa jeet kei tí! »
“Just give us one dollar.”
Wáa sá haa yakoogéi,
How many we are,
dáanaa áyá a ḵín koogéi ách áyá
the money is not enough, because of this
hél awustóow tóo át hél yu.á a x̱oo aa.
some of them were not counted through it, they say.
Tle x̱ʼaháat haa yát has ashootánch.
Then they would close the door on us.
Áwé Filipino,
The Filipino people,
has du shátxʼi yán Lingít has ayawlisháa aag̱áa.
their wives, they were married to Native women at that time.
Áwé ltín haa éet has wudishée,
You see, they really helped us,
dáanaa een sá.
with money that is.
Aadé has du jeedé wtuwawóo,
We asked that money be sent to them,
Roy Brown ḵa John Borbridge.
Roy Brown and John Borbridge.
Yéi áyá a káx̱ has ḵuligáaw.
This is how they fought for it.
1971 gíwésá ḵúnáx̱ has ayaawatee.
Maybe it was 1971 when they put it through.
1970 ḵúnáx̱ a káx̱ yéi jiwtuwanei.
We worked hard on it in 1970.
Ldakát ḵáa áyá yéi jeewanei.
Everybody worked.
{hél chʼas} Hél chʼas yá Mrs. Peratrovich.
Not only Mrs. Peratrovich.
Aaá. Hél a saayí a tóo yéi utí.
The name wasn't in it.
Aaá.
Yes.
{ḵu} Ḵúnáx̱ a káx̱ ḵuwtulihaa.
We really wrestled for it.
Tlákw Aan tsú.
Klukwan too.
Yéi áwé s yawtuwadlaaḵ.
That's how we beat them.
Mhm.
Yes.
Thatʼs the tail end of it.
Há gunalchéesh {a} ax̱ een keeyaneegi x̱á!
Thank you for telling me this!
Ahah.
Uhuh.
{haa} Haa kadushxeet áyá {yaa} yaa yeedát.
We are being recorded right now.
Ahah.
Uhuh.
Yáa
That
Alice-ch áwé ax̱ een kaawaneek tatgé.
Alice told it to me yesterday.
Ahah.
Uhuh.
Yéi jinax̱tooneiyí! Aaá.
Letʼs work! Yes.
{wé s} Wé sgóonwaan tsú yáaxʼ yéi has dutee, {haa} haa x̱ʼéit has
The students are here too,
as.aax̱ {yáa} yáa yeedát.
theyʼre listening to us right now.
Gwál aa,
Maybe,
ah,
uh,
dax̱adooshú,
seven,
dax̱adooshooyináx̱,
seven people,
yéi has yatee yáaxʼ.
they are here.
Ḵa tsú wé camera een tsú.
And with a camera too.
Hah!
Huh!
Aadóo sá wéidu yeedát?
Who is there right now?
Am, yee saayí.
Um, your names.
Wudisheeyi Tláa, Alice.
Helpful mother, Alice.
Charles.
Lingít saayí.
Your Tlingit name.
Shaaḵ.
[name]
Áyá x̱wsikoowu át áyá i een kax̱waaneek.
I told you what I know.
Ó.
Oh.
Marsha.
Aaá.
Yes.
{ḵun} Ḵúnáx̱ yakʼéi x̱á!
It's really good!
Kʼidéin haa een {keeyaneegí} keeyaneek.
You told it to us well.
Tlél aadóoch sá
Nobody
a daa yoo x̱ʼeitánk. June Pegues ḵa
talks about it. June Pegues and
Margaret Gamble,
x̱áayá a x̱oo aa yax̱ has yawsixʼáḵw de.
see some of them have passed on already.
Áyá has du een áyá,
It is with them,
eeshandéin yoo haa kaawashoo.
we suffered together.
Chʼa yeedát ḵudzitee Margaret Gamble.
Margaret Gamble is still alive.
Át áwé tóot wutuwa.át chʼa aan,
Thatʼs it, we went through it, and yet
ḵuwtuligaaw.
we fought.
Chʼa yákʼw sh akdiyéey een.
Suddenly there were many of us tied together.
Yeah.
Ax̱ tláa tsú, Yéi áwé i een kax̱waaneek.
My mother too, Thatʼs what Iʼm telling you.
Ax̱ tláa ḵa tsú haa léelkʼw, tsú.
My mother and our grandmother, too.
Aaá. Aaá.
Yes. Yes.
{wé wé} Wé gútkʼ yís
For a little dime
wé daḵéisʼ wé atxáshdi téel,
the sewing, those moccasins,
chʼa tlákw
all the time
{has da}has aawaḵéisʼ [ooḵáayjin]
they sewed them
aag̱áa áwé has aawahóon.
and then they sold it.
Wé
That
wéitʼát yís kagéi yís áwé
it was for that,
wé dáanaa.
that money.
Ahah.
Uhuh.
X̱wasikóo {a a} a een áwé x̱át tsu kei x̱at uwawát.
I know about it; I, too, grew up with that.
Ahah.
Uhuh.
Wé
That
Margaret Gamble chʼa yeedádi-dé, «Gunalchéesh,» yóo x̱at daayaḵáa neech.
up to this day Margaret Gamble always says, “Thank you,” to me.
Aaa.
Oh.
{has awu} Has awsiteen aadé eeshandéin yoo haa kaawashoowu yé
They saw the way we suffered
a káx̱ wé dáanaa. Mhm.
for that money. Yes.
Ḵúnáx̱ has du tóonáx̱ áwé yawtuwadlaaḵ John Borbridge ḵa Roy {peratr}
It was really through them that we succeeded, John Borbridge and Roy {peratr}
Roy Brown.
Roy Brown.
Wé
That
{tlél has du yáa y} Gwál tléł {has ḵa}
Maybe they (the government),
ḵaa yáa has ushkʼé.
they were horrible to people.
Chʼa aan ḵwá dleit ḵaa wuhaan.
Despite this, they (Alaska Natives) withstood the white man.
Yéi áyá a tóonáx̱ has ayaawatee x̱á.
This is how they put it (our legal rights) through.
Ḵúnáx̱ hás áyá a káx̱ has ḵoowlihaa.
It was really them that wrestled with it for us.
Aa yakʼéi x̱á. Gunalchéesh de hóochʼ géwé.
Thatʼs good. Thank you, maybe itʼs all done.
De hoochʼ shákdé yá.
I think thatʼs all.
Aaá. Gunalchéesh, gwál i x̱ánde kḵwagóot yá xáanaa.
Thank you. Maybe Iʼll come by tonight.
Um, {wéide kḵwa}
Um,
{ax̱ ee} ax̱ eeg̱áa haadé kg̱waḵóox̱ wé dleit shaawát.
sheʼs coming for me, that white lady.
Oh. OK.
Aaá.
Yes.
Gwál seig̱ánin.
Maybe tomorrow.
Weʼre going to have a meeting there, so. You know itʼs about that books we bought, so.
Gunalchéesh.
Thank you.
Ok. Iʼve got to get ready too, because, sheʼs coming after me before six. I want to run around a little before then. Ok. All right. Weʼll see you.
Tsu i jeedé kḵwadatáan.
Iʼll call you again.
Gunalchéesh.
Thank you.
Gunalchéesh.
Thank you.
[Recap] Sheʼs going out for a drive in the afternoon. Itʼs beautiful out and then sheʼs going to go to a meeting tonight. And um, sheʼs talking about how she needs to get out more. And um, I donʼt know how we ended up on land claims! [Laughter] Iʼm just, how did we get there?
On, Ishmael. She just read about Ishmael, or heard about him. So thatʼs kind of how it started. About he, his play. And then, thatʼs how it started on the ANB and the, the struggle for land claims. She talked about how the community raised funds to um, send the people to Washington, D.C. And it was all over, you know. Although our people and I know a lot of the elders did their part to make it happen. It wasnʼt just one or two people. It was the people in the background that, yeah. You know. And, she made comments, so when you translate it sheʼll give it to you a little bit. Maybe their names are not out there but they actually shouldnʼt be forgotten. So.
Hóochʼ. Hóochʼ, aaá.
Thatʼs it. Thatʼs it, yes.